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Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 19th, 2017, 6:06 pm
by maryjane48

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 19th, 2017, 9:40 pm
by Dizzy1
Great article, until this ...

“If men’s violence against women is to cease, it’s the men who have to change,” stated Johansson


... until we start treating rape/abuse/harassment without segregating the sexes, we will continue to loose the battle.

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 19th, 2017, 10:27 pm
by Verum
maryjane48 wrote:https://www.rt.com/news/413666-sweden-rape-consent-law/


Could save miscommunication troubles

Not that the article is fake, I don't know, but I would be very wary of trusting anything whatsoever printed in rt.com. It is a Russian government run propaganda machine, under the guise of a news source.

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 19th, 2017, 11:25 pm
by Dizzy1
Verum wrote:Not that the article is fake, I don't know, but I would be very wary of trusting anything whatsoever printed in rt.com. It is a Russian government run propaganda machine, under the guise of a news source.

It gets better ...

https://www.thelocal.se/20171207/swedis ... sex-abroad

So with one law, the want to make sex legal if its consensual, yet in another law they want to make consensual sex illegal if it happens abroad where prostitution is legal and considered consensual :135:

And from the original article ...

Sweden’s adults could be convicted of rape unless they receive a verbal or non-verbal sign of consent from their partner at each step of their sexual encounter


... what does that even mean? Every step of the way? One has to stop every time you take a piece of clothing off and re-ask for "permission"?

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 19th, 2017, 11:37 pm
by Verum
Dizzy1 wrote:
Verum wrote:Not that the article is fake, I don't know, but I would be very wary of trusting anything whatsoever printed in rt.com. It is a Russian government run propaganda machine, under the guise of a news source.

It gets better ...

https://www.thelocal.se/20171207/swedis ... sex-abroad

So with one law, the want to make sex legal if its consensual, yet in another law they want to make consensual sex illegal if it happens abroad where prostitution is legal and considered consensual :135:

And from the original article ...

Sweden’s adults could be convicted of rape unless they receive a verbal or non-verbal sign of consent from their partner at each step of their sexual encounter


... what does that even mean? Every step of the way? One has to stop every time you take a piece of clothing off and re-ask for "permission"?

They wouldn't be the first country to enact extraterritorial laws, many do so. Not that I support such laws in this case, I support decriminalisation and regulation of prostitution, for the benefit of the prostitutes more than anyone else.

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 20th, 2017, 1:24 am
by maryjane48
I know what rt is . Its a,propoganda, tool of putins .but they have had good reporters so. I tend not to read anything they put out about russia

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 20th, 2017, 10:00 am
by Bpeep
Imo nonconsensual sex isn't sex, its rape.

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 24th, 2017, 8:44 pm
by Silverstarqueen
Dizzy1 wrote:Great article, until this ...

“If men’s violence against women is to cease, it’s the men who have to change,” stated Johansson


... until we start treating rape/abuse/harassment without segregating the sexes, we will continue to loose the battle.


Fact: Some men commit violence against women.
Fact: that won't change until those men change.

We don't have to blur the sexes to understand how this works.
I don't see how anyone can argue with Johansson's conclusion. Women are not the ones responsible for men's violence against women, the men are.

Pretty radical, don't you think? Get consent and be sure you have consent before having sex with someone. If you are not sure, then you don't have consent. Is that really too much to ask?
"Under current Swedish law someone can be prosecuted for rape only if it has been proved that they used threats or violence. Under the proposal, rape could be proved if the accuser hadn’t given their explicit verbal agreement or clearly demonstrate their desire to engage in sexual activity."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... it-consent

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 25th, 2017, 12:32 am
by Dizzy1
Silverstarqueen wrote:
Fact: Some men commit violence against women.
Fact: that won't change until those men change.

We don't have to blur the sexes to understand how this works.
I don't see how anyone can argue with Johansson's conclusion. Women are not the ones responsible for men's violence against women, the men are.

Pretty radical, don't you think? Get consent and be sure you have consent before having sex with someone. If you are not sure, then you don't have consent. Is that really too much to ask?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... it-consent

And the segregating continues.

Fact - Some women commit violence against men.
Fact - that won't change until those women change.

The sooner we can focus on the fact that the violence needs to stop the better, but as long as all the #MeToo, BlackLivesMatters, etc. groups of this world keep directing their energy on their specific corner of society - the farther and farther we'll get from achieving the goal which is to stop violence against each other - full stop, end of story, period!

:132:

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 25th, 2017, 12:32 am
by Dizzy1
double post

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 25th, 2017, 4:54 am
by Silverstarqueen
Dizzy1 wrote:
Silverstarqueen wrote:
Fact: Some men commit violence against women.
Fact: that won't change until those men change.

We don't have to blur the sexes to understand how this works.
I don't see how anyone can argue with Johansson's conclusion. Women are not the ones responsible for men's violence against women, the men are.

Pretty radical, don't you think? Get consent and be sure you have consent before having sex with someone. If you are not sure, then you don't have consent. Is that really too much to ask?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... it-consent


And the segregating continues.

Fact - Some women commit violence against men.
Fact - that won't change until those women change.

The sooner we can focus on the fact that the violence needs to stop the better, but as long as all the #MeToo, BlackLivesMatters, etc. groups of this world keep directing their energy on their specific corner of society - the farther and farther we'll get from achieving the goal which is to stop violence against each other - full stop, end of story, period!

:132:

Talking about one aspect of a problem i.e. men's violence against women, does not in any way preclude some other aspect of a problem i.e. all violence in it's many many different forms. Yes, we know there is violence of women against women, women against men, men against men (or boys),white on white, black on black, parent against child, child against parent. So why does that preclude someone making a comment about men's violence against women,( in this case a law specifically about sexual intercourse or assault).
If we stop talking about men's violence against women, who are we helping except the perpetrators?

The law previously allowed sexual intercourse as long as no one was threatened or beaten, now it has been clarified to require consent. Laws have to be specific, to a behavior, and in this case certainly do not specify that it only refers to men's violence against women, and is inclusive of both sexes and all orientations.Both parties have to have consent.

So Dizzy, are you in favor of the new law in Sweden that requires consent for sexual relations, or not?

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 25th, 2017, 8:01 am
by Gixxer
Wow I suggested this during the Ghomeshi allegations. Adults should sign a consent form before engaging in any sexual contact with a check list of whats allowed and not allowed.

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 25th, 2017, 12:39 pm
by Bsuds
Gixxer wrote:Wow I suggested this during the Ghomeshi allegations. Adults should sign a consent form before engaging in any sexual contact with a check list of whats allowed and not allowed.


Or just be like Sheldon and have them sign a contract.

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 25th, 2017, 1:51 pm
by Silverstarqueen
Check list might not quite work, in that a person could have it signed and then just check off later items that were not originally agreed to. So better to specify in written out form and then stick with the plan.

Re: Swedens new law on sex

PostPosted: Dec 25th, 2017, 2:23 pm
by alanjh595
So much for foreplay.......