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I love climate change

Social, economic and environmental issues in our ever-changing world.

I love climate change

Postby TheBoss » Jan 7th, 2018, 9:10 am

So far this winter i have had my car parked for about 4 weeks, week and half in November when we had that first dump. then got to drive it for the rest of November and well into December until we got those snow storms. Now it's the first week of January and it's getting nice again. I have all seasons on it and i don't plan on doing any out of town driving until i know for sure the roads are decent.

The weather has defiantly changed in the last 20 years, how much not a 100% sure. I know winters aren't what they used to be, so bring on climate change and maybe we'll never have to deal with snow again.

I also suffer from hay fever when we had that hot weather in march about 2 years ago my hay fever started almost a month early (may) Instead of june. Last year with all of the rain in the spring my hay fever didn't act up till june, so it bounced back to normal.
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Re: I love climate change

Postby TylerM4 » Jan 7th, 2018, 11:33 am

That's one way to look at it.

The problem with climate change is that it's not as simple as your believe it to be. Climate change results in weather pattern changes and "more violent" weather - not simply "It's getting warmer out". Climate and weather are complex. Global warming can actually mean cooler temps in the Okanagan. It can also result in more/less precipitation, etc. While I'm sure you enjoy the warmer temps, how would you feel if Tornado's became a common occurrence?

Climate change is likely responsible for all of the headaches we experienced this spring/summer with record flooding then record drought/fires. THAT is the true face of climate change/global warming. Not "It hasn't snowed as much".

Plus you seem to be forgetting the mid/late 90's when we had some very warm and green winters.
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Re: I love climate change

Postby jimmy4321 » Jan 7th, 2018, 11:37 am

For some "Global" means a few square miles around their home or wherever they are at the moment.

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Re: I love climate change

Postby Lady tehMa » Jan 7th, 2018, 12:22 pm

Climate change is something that happens. We haven't always had the weather we have now. The earth is constantly changing, volcanoes erupting and spewing ash, not to mention continental drift. There are archaeological sites under significant amounts of water around the world. We have had mini ice ages even fairly recently (medieval time frame), and tropical fossils have been found in Antarctica. Such significant climate change must have had a reason - but it wasn't humanity.

Fast forward to our century and any changes are met with panic and horror. Blame is cast, apocalyptic prophecies uttered.
Remember the new ice age being predicted in the 70's? After that came the hole in the ozone layer - we would all perish as that protection was stripped from us. That was replaced by global warming. Global warming was considered too specific, especially when things started cooling down again. So the bright boys came up with the moniker "climate change" - fits all sorts of doom and gloom predictions, no retooling needed.

I would love to see those scientists actually take past into account. It's like we've never had extreme weather patterns before! Yet, if you look at history you can see that there are years of extreme weather patterns in groups (some posit sun flare activity being the cause). We need to take our past history into account, and to stop focusing on a single time period while expecting everything to stay static.
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Re: I love climate change

Postby GrooveTunes » Jan 7th, 2018, 12:50 pm

Lady tehMa wrote:Climate change is something that happens. We haven't always had the weather we have now. The earth is constantly changing, volcanoes erupting and spewing ash, not to mention continental drift. There are archaeological sites under significant amounts of water around the world. We have had mini ice ages even fairly recently (medieval time frame), and tropical fossils have been found in Antarctica. Such significant climate change must have had a reason - but it wasn't humanity.

Fast forward to our century and any changes are met with panic and horror. Blame is cast, apocalyptic prophecies uttered.
Remember the new ice age being predicted in the 70's? After that came the hole in the ozone layer - we would all perish as that protection was stripped from us. That was replaced by global warming. Global warming was considered too specific, especially when things started cooling down again. So the bright boys came up with the moniker "climate change" - fits all sorts of doom and gloom predictions, no retooling needed.

I would love to see those scientists actually take past into account. It's like we've never had extreme weather patterns before! Yet, if you look at history you can see that there are years of extreme weather patterns in groups (some posit sun flare activity being the cause). We need to take our past history into account, and to stop focusing on a single time period while expecting everything to stay static.


Yes those pesky scientists telling us what needed to be done to protect us.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/01/05/hole-ozone-layer-has-shrunk-thanks-ban-cfcs-nasa-confirms/
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Re: I love climate change

Postby Ka-El » Jan 7th, 2018, 1:07 pm

Lady tehMa wrote:Climate change is something that happens. We haven't always had the weather we have now. The earth is constantly changing, volcanoes erupting and spewing ash, not to mention continental drift. There are archaeological sites under significant amounts of water around the world. We have had mini ice ages even fairly recently (medieval time frame), and tropical fossils have been found in Antarctica. Such significant climate change must have had a reason - but it wasn't humanity.

I think most of us would probably agree man’s activities are influencing climate change, at least to some degree and maybe even accelerating it. However, at the same time, I absolutely agree with you that climate change is happening anyway. My beef is this idea humans have the capability to slow it down, let alone stop it. Yes, I agree with everyone that we have to work our way from fossil fuel dependence, but our reliance on oil and it’s by-products will still continue for many years. In fact, the use of fossil fuel will be critical over the next few years if we ever decide to collectively engage in activities that could really help us prepare for climate change, and to finally make the complete transition from fossil fuel dependence.

Two immediate concerns if we really want to prepare ourselves:
1. The construction of levies and storm breaks around populated coastal areas at risk of severe weather (because carbon taxes are not going to stop severe weather)
2. Massive public transit infrastructure development and construction (because auto transport in large urban areas is one of the greatest contributors to air pollution)

There are more, but my wife just got home and we have a game to watch.
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Re: I love climate change

Postby Omnitheo » Jan 7th, 2018, 1:10 pm

Lady tehMa wrote:Climate change is something that happens. We haven't always had the weather we have now. The earth is constantly changing, volcanoes erupting and spewing ash, not to mention continental drift. There are archaeological sites under significant amounts of water around the world. We have had mini ice ages even fairly recently (medieval time frame), and tropical fossils have been found in Antarctica. Such significant climate change must have had a reason - but it wasn't humanity.

Fast forward to our century and any changes are met with panic and horror. Blame is cast, apocalyptic prophecies uttered.
Remember the new ice age being predicted in the 70's? After that came the hole in the ozone layer - we would all perish as that protection was stripped from us. That was replaced by global warming. Global warming was considered too specific, especially when things started cooling down again. So the bright boys came up with the moniker "climate change" - fits all sorts of doom and gloom predictions, no retooling needed.

I would love to see those scientists actually take past into account. It's like we've never had extreme weather patterns before! Yet, if you look at history you can see that there are years of extreme weather patterns in groups (some posit sun flare activity being the cause). We need to take our past history into account, and to stop focusing on a single time period while expecting everything to stay static.



This nonesense again seriously? The only scientists who claimed to have predicted an ice age in the 70’s were the same crackpots that we have today denying climate change. They fly in the face of consensus and ignorant people without any actual understanding somehow give them the same level of attention if not more than the vast majority of actual scientists.

Yes climate changes. It always has, BUT (and read this very carefully, because it can’t be stressed enough) it has NOT occurred on the timescales it is now outside of massive extinction events. All these other changes you talk about happened over millions of years. NOT decades.

And seriously, weather is not climate. It’s like saying that a house is a country.
You talk about the “bright boys”, the scientists. So tell me, what is your scientific background? Where are your years of peer reviewed research? Your controls? Your ice core samples, your geological understanding?

For one, you talk about tropical fossils in Antarctica. You know that Antarctica wasn’t always at the South Pole right? These fossils are from when the continent was somewhere entirely different. And those fossils are of animals unable to adapt to changing conditions that have since died out.
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Re: I love climate change

Postby TheBoss » Jan 7th, 2018, 11:41 pm

Humans have had an impact on the environment since the industrial revolution. I was born in 88, i remember the late 90's and there was some decent snow, a few times not much snow. Just watching the weather around the world their is defiantly a change happening. With climate modeling ti can only tell so much their are tons of natural variables too that can change the outcome.

I wonder what this spring is going to be like, more flooding or hot and dry? or more normal? What ever that might be?
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Re: I love climate change

Postby Omnitheo » Jan 8th, 2018, 9:09 am

Here is a worldwise temperature anomaly map

Image

These represent temperatures outside of the norm. So while yes there are some places which are particularly cold at the moment, most other places are unseasonably warm. We all share this one planet. Just because it’s cold in your city doesn’t mean that the world as a whole isn’t still trending another way.

Also just as scientists understand climate, they also understand weather.

The map of North America underscores one of the realities of weather—when a cold snap hits one region, warmth often bakes another one. A giant meander (or Rossby wave) in the jet stream is the common thread that connects the warm weather west of the Rockies with the chill east of them. As the crest of a Rossby wave—a ridge—pushed unusually far toward Alaska in December, it dragged warm tropical air with it. In response, the other side of the wave—a trough—slid deep into the eastern United States, bringing pulses of dense, cold Arctic air south with it. The Rocky Mountains have boxed in much of the coldest, densest air, serving as a barrier between the cold and warm air masses.
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Re: I love climate change

Postby johnny24 » Jan 8th, 2018, 10:08 am

Lady tehMa wrote:
I would love to see those scientists actually take past into account. It's like we've never had extreme weather patterns before! Yet, if you look at history you can see that there are years of extreme weather patterns in groups (some posit sun flare activity being the cause). We need to take our past history into account, and to stop focusing on a single time period while expecting everything to stay static.


They do look at history. That's why there is concern. We've seen an increase in temperatures over the last 50 years that previously took 10s of thousands of years.

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Re: I love climate change

Postby youjustcomplain » Jan 9th, 2018, 7:58 am

johnny24 wrote:They do look at history. That's why there is concern. We've seen an increase in temperatures over the last 50 years that previously took 10s of thousands of years.


Comments like yours will be ignored by people who don't agree that humans affect climate change. Just like all facts on the subject.

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Re: I love climate change

Postby Omnitheo » Jan 9th, 2018, 10:45 am

Yep. and make dumb statements like “but sunspots” as though there haven’t been scientists studying sunspots and solar cycles for decades with an understanding of how this affects the earth.
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Re: I love climate change

Postby rustled » Jan 9th, 2018, 12:04 pm

Omnitheo wrote:Here is a worldwise temperature anomaly map

Image

These represent temperatures outside of the norm. So while yes there are some places which are particularly cold at the moment, most other places are unseasonably warm. We all share this one planet. Just because it’s cold in your city doesn’t mean that the world as a whole isn’t still trending another way.

Also just as scientists understand climate, they also understand weather.

The map of North America underscores one of the realities of weather—when a cold snap hits one region, warmth often bakes another one. A giant meander (or Rossby wave) in the jet stream is the common thread that connects the warm weather west of the Rockies with the chill east of them. As the crest of a Rossby wave—a ridge—pushed unusually far toward Alaska in December, it dragged warm tropical air with it. In response, the other side of the wave—a trough—slid deep into the eastern United States, bringing pulses of dense, cold Arctic air south with it. The Rocky Mountains have boxed in much of the coldest, densest air, serving as a barrier between the cold and warm air masses.

Context being everything, I wondered about "the norm". Anomalies, compared to what?
This temperature anomaly map is based on data from the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) on NASA’s Terra satellite. It shows land surface temperatures (LSTs) from December 26, 2017 to January 2, 2018, compared to the 2001–2010 average for the same eight-day period. Red colors depict areas that were hotter than average; blues were colder than average.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/ ... iotd_title

Interesting, huh? One wonders how the weather anomalies of any eight-day period would compare against any other ten-year time frame through history, or with any particular century, etc.
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Re: I love climate change

Postby AlienSoldier » Jan 9th, 2018, 12:55 pm

At the end of the day we can sit around and discuss this but we can see the results around us. More wildfires, more flash floods, greater snow during snow storms.

Is their a benefit to climate change? Yes, to some of us there is (especially in Canada) but that pendulum swings the other way real fast if the change is to quick, or to much. Vegetation that we rely on stops growing, invasive species start to gain territory (Asian long horn beetle, etc) and some fruits, vegetables and animals either go extinct or become more expensive.

The same people who don't believe in climate change, will be the ones complaining when you can't grow food in California and their grocery bill goes up.
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Re: I love climate change

Postby Glacier » Jan 9th, 2018, 1:01 pm

TylerM4 wrote:That's one way to look at it.

The problem with climate change is that it's not as simple as your believe it to be. Climate change results in weather pattern changes and "more violent" weather - not simply "It's getting warmer out". Climate and weather are complex. Global warming can actually mean cooler temps in the Okanagan. It can also result in more/less precipitation, etc. While I'm sure you enjoy the warmer temps, how would you feel if Tornado's became a common occurrence?

Climate change is likely responsible for all of the headaches we experienced this spring/summer with record flooding then record drought/fires. THAT is the true face of climate change/global warming. Not "It hasn't snowed as much".

Plus you seem to be forgetting the mid/late 90's when we had some very warm and green winters.

You are right about it being coming far from simple, but I disagree with respect to the weather becoming more violent. I've asked the climate change believers on here and elsewhere for evidence that the planet is getting more "violent" or that extremes are increasing. All I get is crickets because there's not a shred of evidence to back up that claim.

Sometimes someone will do the exact same thing the conspiracy theorists do when they say "oh look, it's cold outside, therefore global warming is bunk," by saying, "look, there was a big hurricane last year," or my favourite, "look, a dead polar bear!" That's utterly meaningless and as stupid as the conspiracy theorists.

In fact, that's exactly what you just did here by pointing to record events last year. That's called anecdotal evidence. You do realize that records happen every single year, right? You have to actually trend the data to show evidence of climate change extremes increasing to show something.

Here are the facts: The globe AND the Okanagan have warmed since records began. Extremes have not become more extreme or more frequent. Some extremes have, like extreme heat, but this has been more than offset by far less extreme cold. A warmer planet means a more hospitable one. That's why 90% of Canadians live within a two hour drive of the southern border.

Here's Penticton as a reference point:

penticton19092017.png
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