Decriminalization of All Drugs

Social, economic and environmental issues in our ever-changing world.

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby Ka-El » Jan 29th, 2018, 1:02 pm

the national caucus is calling on the government to eliminate criminal penalties for simple possession and consumption of all illicit drugs.

Eliminate criminal penalties for simple possession and consumption of all illicit drugs by already suffering addicts?? What a travesty!!! What next? Eliminate criminal penalties for having a mental disorder or just being stupid? Oh, wait ...
"Been places much much worse than a Canadian prison" - internet tough guy
User avatar
Ka-El
Guru
 
Posts: 5696
Likes: 3007 posts
Liked in: 5158 posts
Joined: Oct 18th, 2015, 8:19 am

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby GrooveTunes » Jan 29th, 2018, 1:29 pm

AlienSoldier wrote:Great conversation so far! *pats himself on the back*

I think if we want to see before and after affects of legalization we have only to turn to Portugal which legalized many hard drugs. Before and after comparisons should be easy since this did not happen to long ago.

Also, I understand Queen's point of view, after all look at how many alcohol companies pride themselves on their history of bootlegging (those were gangs and drug dealers at one point). But through time and dilution those facets slowly disappeared or were concentrated into a select few who realized they need to change to keep their power. This is probably what will happen to the marijuana industry as well.

With harder drugs I feel this will be more difficult to do. Many of them are in pill form or require more pharmaceutical like companies to create. That initial investment and knowledge is not cheap and competition between current pharmaceutical companies and dealers trying to break in will surely see the pharama's win. I'm not saying pharmaceutical companies aren't drug dealers themselves though. lol


except they didn't.....Portugal decriminalised the use of all drugs in 2001. Weed, cocaine, heroin, you name it — Portugal decided to treat possession and use of small quantities of these drugs as a public health issue, not a criminal one. The drugs were still illegal, of course. But now getting caught with them meant a small fine and maybe a referral to a treatment program — not jail time and a criminal record.

Still it has made overdosing a thing of the past for the most part. Among Portuguese adults, there are 3 drug overdose deaths for every 1,000,000 citizens. Comparable numbers in other countries range from 10.2 per million in the Netherlands to 44.6 per million in the UK, all the way up to 126.8 per million in Estonia. The EU average is 17.3 per million.

When I was in the main square in Lisbon 2013, it took less then 10 minutes to be approached and quietly offered a nice chunk of black hash. When I went to my very nice aribnb there was a fellow shooting up outside the front door.
All posts are my opinion unless otherwise noted.
User avatar
GrooveTunes
Übergod
 
Posts: 1982
Likes: 297 posts
Liked in: 399 posts
Joined: Feb 19th, 2006, 7:37 pm

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby LiamHaddock » Jan 29th, 2018, 2:19 pm

I once when I had more time on my hands/recovering from surgery, I started a thread called War On Drugs: Failure or Success?
I strongly believe we should decriminalize. I shared multiple studies links etc and tried hard to keep thread on topic. It can be hard in these forums to do so. If anyones interested tons of great info in thread below:

http://forums.castanet.net/viewtopic.php?t=67427

I don't have energy or time to re-hash the same discussion over and over but for those that are interested there is lots of info in that thread, 17 pages or so of mostly on topic discussion, of course the usuals tried to derail the conversation whenever they could but I tried with reporting/admins my best to keep it on topic and not rants about "criminal junkies".

:130:
LiamHaddock
Übergod
 
Posts: 1525
Likes: 1149 posts
Liked in: 580 posts
Joined: Jul 1st, 2011, 7:07 pm

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby jimmy4321 » Jan 29th, 2018, 5:11 pm

Should be at most decriminalize as far as addicts being cought with it, pointless expense. Got to be born yesterday to think an addict is gonna kick the habit cause they might get a criminal record.
We should hunt dealers of hard drugs and punish them harshly.
I don't believe government should supply it .
jimmy4321
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4013
Likes: 1095 posts
Liked in: 1869 posts
Joined: Jun 6th, 2010, 4:40 pm

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby AlienSoldier » Jan 30th, 2018, 7:29 am

jimmy4321 wrote:Should be at most decriminalize as far as addicts being cought with it, pointless expense. Got to be born yesterday to think an addict is gonna kick the habit cause they might get a criminal record.
We should hunt dealers of hard drugs and punish them harshly.
I don't believe government should supply it .


I agree with people with addictions not getting a criminal record and being put in jail. It only raises the cost and taxes to us while providing no material benefit for the people with addictions or society.

To fight the dealers, that's why I said maybe allowing pharmaceuticals to provide the drugs is an option. At least then its controlled, taxed and quality can be maintained. There would have to be harsh laws on pushing the drugs through advertisements and incentives should not be allowed.
AlienSoldier
Fledgling
 
Posts: 291
Likes: 51 posts
Liked in: 214 posts
Joined: Oct 30th, 2017, 10:53 am

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby Sparki55 » Jan 30th, 2018, 7:50 am

The reason most people have been overdosing is due to buying one product which is unregulated and receiving different potency levels and harmful additives (fentanyl).

Our society's laws for drugs baffle me. They pretty much state a doctor can supply you whatever they please if they believe it will help but you can't buy it without a prescription. You can't decide what is best for you, someone else who cannot feel your pain will decide for you.

Then there are plants like marijuana, mushrooms, tobacco, etc. which the government bans or taxes for what reason? Our society is demanding answers and with pot becoming legal soon I'm not surprised other drugs being added to the agenda.

Buying drugs at a store where you know the grade, quality, quantity and that it's safe would help people buy the correct dose and not have an accidental overdose. This would also cut crime, allow us to tax profits and keep a record of how much is being purchaced.

There should not be laws and punishments for what people choose to put in their own bodies.

Ka-El likes this post.
Sparki55
Board Meister
 
Posts: 623
Likes: 435 posts
Liked in: 562 posts
Joined: Feb 24th, 2013, 1:38 pm

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby the truth » Jan 30th, 2018, 8:43 am

Sparki55 wrote:The reason most people have been overdosing is due to buying one product which is unregulated and receiving different potency levels and harmful additives (fentanyl).

Our society's laws for drugs baffle me. They pretty much state a doctor can supply you whatever they please if they believe it will help but you can't buy it without a prescription. You can't decide what is best for you, someone else who cannot feel your pain will decide for you.

Then there are plants like marijuana, mushrooms, tobacco, etc. which the government bans or taxes for what reason? Our society is demanding answers and with pot becoming legal soon I'm not surprised other drugs being added to the agenda.

Buying drugs at a store where you know the grade, quality, quantity and that it's safe would help people buy the correct dose and not have an accidental overdose. This would also cut crime, allow us to tax profits and keep a record of how much is being purchaced.

There should not be laws and punishments for what people choose to put in their own bodies.


ok i will go with that, lets not punish people who choose to do drugs, go at it fill your boots, but do not expect tax payers money to support them when they become full blown useless addicts
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
User avatar
the truth
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 15583
Likes: 10392 posts
Liked in: 6220 posts
Joined: May 16th, 2007, 8:24 pm
Location: kelowna

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby jimmy4321 » Jan 30th, 2018, 8:54 am

I think with some drugs the race to the bottom is fairly quick.
jimmy4321
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4013
Likes: 1095 posts
Liked in: 1869 posts
Joined: Jun 6th, 2010, 4:40 pm

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby CapitalB » Jan 30th, 2018, 9:12 am

the truth wrote:
ok i will go with that, lets not punish people who choose to do drugs, go at it fill your boots, but do not expect tax payers money to support them when they become full blown useless addicts


Can we also stop paying for people that smoke cigarettes and drink excessive amounts of alcohol then?
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
User avatar
CapitalB
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 839
Likes: 418 posts
Liked in: 552 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2017, 11:27 am

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby alanjh595 » Jan 30th, 2018, 9:15 am

CapitalB wrote:
the truth wrote:
ok i will go with that, lets not punish people who choose to do drugs, go at it fill your boots, but do not expect tax payers money to support them when they become full blown useless addicts


Can we also stop paying for people that smoke cigarettes and drink excessive amounts of alcohol then?


Both are taxed heavily and produce revues that funds things like anti-smoking and heath care.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

the truth likes this post.
User avatar
alanjh595
Guru
 
Posts: 6623
Likes: 2475 posts
Liked in: 3576 posts
Joined: Oct 20th, 2017, 4:18 pm

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby Sparki55 » Jan 30th, 2018, 9:40 am

CapitalB wrote:
the truth wrote:
ok i will go with that, lets not punish people who choose to do drugs, go at it fill your boots, but do not expect tax payers money to support them when they become full blown useless addicts


Can we also stop paying for people that smoke cigarettes and drink excessive amounts of alcohol then?


If you want to go down that route then we also need to ban all junk food. Only healthy items in stores, whole grain foods, unprocessed protein, no added sugars.

People can get their potatoe chip and chocolate bar fix on the streets. Then you will understand my arguement when all sorts of additives end up in the illegal unregulated food.
Sparki55
Board Meister
 
Posts: 623
Likes: 435 posts
Liked in: 562 posts
Joined: Feb 24th, 2013, 1:38 pm

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby the truth » Jan 30th, 2018, 9:44 am

nice try :topic:
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell

alanjh595 likes this post.
User avatar
the truth
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 15583
Likes: 10392 posts
Liked in: 6220 posts
Joined: May 16th, 2007, 8:24 pm
Location: kelowna

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby CapitalB » Jan 30th, 2018, 9:56 am

alanjh595 wrote:Both are taxed heavily and produce revues that funds things like anti-smoking and heath care.


I have a hard time believing they're making as much from taxing those to break even on the massive costs for two of the most damaging substances on the planet.

Sparki55 wrote:If you want to go down that route then we also need to ban all junk food. Only healthy items in stores, whole grain foods, unprocessed protein, no added sugars.

People can get their potatoe chip and chocolate bar fix on the streets. Then you will understand my argument when all sorts of additives end up in the illegal unregulated food.


Thats a massively false equivalency. For one thing I just said lets stop paying for the medical problems that people are stupidly giving to themselves. I didn't say we should enact a prohibition on the substances.

If nothing else this has been a great example of how hypocritical people can be. I'm assuming the people jumping on the defensive here are smokers? Don't want to help people addicted to harmful "drugs" with medical care but suggest taking away medical for these commonly accepted vices (that have some of the highest kill records on the planet) and you go off the rails.

Why should drugs be any different? I don't want to pay for some cigarette smokers chemo, they did that to themselves let them deal with it.

See where this is going yet?
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
User avatar
CapitalB
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 839
Likes: 418 posts
Liked in: 552 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2017, 11:27 am

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby alanjh595 » Jan 30th, 2018, 10:41 am

What about the junkies that smoke and drink?
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
User avatar
alanjh595
Guru
 
Posts: 6623
Likes: 2475 posts
Liked in: 3576 posts
Joined: Oct 20th, 2017, 4:18 pm

Re: Decriminalization of All Drugs

Postby CapitalB » Jan 30th, 2018, 11:26 am

alanjh595 wrote:What about the junkies that smoke and drink?


Wouldn't it be great if they were a source of tax revenue. Might help combat the drain they cause on the system.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.

alanjh595 likes this post.
User avatar
CapitalB
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 839
Likes: 418 posts
Liked in: 552 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2017, 11:27 am

PreviousNext

Return to Social Concerns

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests