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Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolation

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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby Ka-El » Jan 17th, 2018, 6:46 pm

the truth wrote: so what part of this is hard time that you talk about http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-new ... b-c-prison

Try reading this time ...

Ka-El wrote: I also like the example of using an isolated occurence (Williams Head minimum security) to extrapolate an overgeneralization to the entire system. That is a great example of the type of a thinking error we work to challenge and correct in real offenders (ie. not at William Head minimum security). Thanks for that truth. Timely and right on point.

Yes, Williams Head is a federal prison. It is also minimum security. One of its kind in the province, and trying to draw broad conclusions from an isolated occurrence can, in fact, be a thinking error. An example of something you do often.
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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby the truth » Jan 17th, 2018, 8:30 pm

lots of prisons in canada are very nice, i just showed you one , with a link ,would you like more links to many more ,i can do that for ya,
they are not all cinder blocks like you clam, fyi many inmates across canada have a tv in there own cells, you claim to know the justice system ,lol you should know that then,
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby foodsmith » Jan 17th, 2018, 9:10 pm

the truth wrote:nope, i get my info from the front line guys, i have friends who are prison guards , hope that good enough for ya


Really, Truthy? Again with the "I know a guy who works at..." statements.

It's always so obvious when there is, plain and aimple, zero evidence to back-up your claims.

The statement alone, "Club Fed", proves you've never even seen a styro box or 4oz scoop of powdered eggs in your life -- one sporkfull of CC breakfast and you'll never forget it...

It is NOT something folks are banging on the doors to get at a second time.

But nkc2e try... Again. :up:
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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby JayByrd » Jan 17th, 2018, 10:42 pm

the truth wrote:lots of prisons in canada are very nice, i just showed you one , with a link ,would you like more links to many more ,i can do that for ya,
they are not all cinder blocks like you clam, fyi many inmates across canada have a tv in there own cells, you claim to know the justice system ,lol you should know that then,


Then you also must know that inmates at William Head are not in "cells", nor is there an option for solitary confinement there, so it's not relevant to this discussion.

You have pointed out that different correctional institutions have different security levels. If you're suggesting that people rape and kill and serve 20 years at places like William Head, you and your CO friends are incorrect.
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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby Ka-El » Jan 18th, 2018, 6:32 am

JayByrd wrote:
they are not all cinder blocks like you clam, fyi many inmates across canada have a tv in there own cells,

Then you also must know that inmates at William Head are not in "cells", nor is there an option for solitary confinement there, so it's not relevant to this discussion.

Indeed. We started out by discussing the issue of solitary confinement as a risk of creating mental illness in offenders who are already angry and violent. While there are minimum security facilities across Canada, they are not intended for dangerous and violent offenders (yes, a person could probably find an isolated incident where it happened). Grasping at straws and using isolated occurrences as a counterargument is nothing more than a deflection and reveals just how little someone knows about the whole system - which is, in fact, quite complex. There are federal and provincial jurisdictions. There are the judiciary, Crown, defense lawyers, JJPs, police, and probation officers. There are also Court clerks Court Workers, Sheriffs, and correctional officers. Just in community corrections, there are people who supervise offenders in the community, as well as research departments, policy departments, people working on program development and more. These people don't pay too much attention to anecdotal evidence as it is most often inaccurate and misleading (as we see here). The mandate of Corrections Branch, as just one example, is to protect communities by reducing re-offending. Jail is a punitive measure, but the focus is on reducing recidivism, not torture. Still, an intelligent discussion on the issue is going to be impossible if people are only going to use deflections and erroneous rhetoric as a foundation for their argument, never mind not recognize how complex an issue this is. It is always funny to see those with the least knowledge of an issue have such strong opinions on it.
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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby the truth » Jan 18th, 2018, 7:09 am

correct like you proves that
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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby Fancy » Jan 18th, 2018, 7:38 am

Fancy this, Fancy that and by the way, T*t for Tat

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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby JayByrd » Jan 18th, 2018, 8:08 am

It's important to point out...this isn't a case of "prisons just got a little more cushy". All that's been done here, removing the use of segregation for indefinite periods. Inmates can still be secluded for as long as 15 days. That's still a pretty long time when you think about it.

And why has this been done? Is it because our hearts bleed for the poor unfortunate criminals? No, its' because evidence shows, and a judge agrees, that segregating inmates for extended periods causes harm that can't always be undone. The role of correctional institutions isn't to inflict harm on people. That happens enough in prison, without the institution itself doing it deliberately.
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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby youjustcomplain » Jan 18th, 2018, 8:20 am

Seems to me that criminals need to be removed from society for the protection of others. To some degree that is punitive, but for me, that where the punishment should end. We, as a society, no longer tolerate public hangings or torture. Solitary confinement is said to be torture, so I'm against it for long periods of time. This has nothing to do with giving people TV's in their nice climate controlled and safe luxury prison cell. This is about not inflicting additional torture, thus creating more victims.

What I struggle with is that I often find myself wishing I could have some peace and quiet at home. I would happily take a few hours in one of those cells when my kids are noisy. :)

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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby Bsuds » Jan 18th, 2018, 8:50 am

youjustcomplain wrote: I would happily take a few hours in one of those cells when my kids are noisy. :)


Duct tape and Velcro are a parents best friend. :D
Nowadays it's almost rude to ask a question without Googling it first!

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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby foodsmith » Jan 18th, 2018, 9:56 am

JayByrd wrote:It's important to point out...this isn't a case of "prisons just got a little more cushy". All that's been done here, removing the use of segregation for indefinite periods. Inmates can still be secluded for as long as 15 days. That's still a pretty long time when you think about it.

And why has this been done? Is it because our hearts bleed for the poor unfortunate criminals? No, its' because evidence shows, and a judge agrees, that segregating inmates for extended periods causes harm that can't always be undone. The role of correctional institutions isn't to inflict harm on people. That happens enough in prison, without the institution itself doing it deliberately.


Also argued that it is unconstitutional...

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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby Ka-El » Jan 18th, 2018, 11:13 am

JayByrd wrote: And why has this been done? Is it because our hearts bleed for the poor unfortunate criminals? No, its' because evidence shows, and a judge agrees, that segregating inmates for extended periods causes harm that can't always be undone. The role of correctional institutions isn't to inflict harm on people. That happens enough in prison, without the institution itself doing it deliberately.

That's correct. The role of Corrections is to protect communities by reducing re-offending. Corrections is an evidence-based organization that doesn't rely on anecdotal evidence or erroneous rhetoric to develop policy. We engage in actual research to determine what actually works and what doesn't work and from there we formulate best practice. We are not going to continue with practice that has been shown (by evidence from research) to be counter-productive and even dangerous to society.
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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby the truth » Jan 18th, 2018, 11:26 am

[icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif] how's that working for us, they re offend over and over again
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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby youjustcomplain » Jan 18th, 2018, 11:36 am

the truth wrote:[icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif] how's that working for us, they re offend over and over again


And that doesn't suggest that long term solitary confinement is a viable option. You need a better option, backed by facts.

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Re: Inmates are likely to suffer permanent harm from isolati

Postby Ka-El » Jan 18th, 2018, 12:13 pm

the truth wrote:[icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif] how's that working for us, they re offend over and over again

It's working quite well actually. Of course there are offenders who will continue to re-offend - just as there are posters here who will never muster the courage to challenge their erroneous notions and do some actual research on the subject. However, the research shows CBT interventions and programming reduce recidivism. Punishment doesn't (it only satisfies the sentencing principle of general deterrence - you could probably look that up). There are never guarantees just as a result of using evidence based practice. The one thing observed with some offenders (and some posters here) is that you can't fix stupid.
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