Stop Shaming Business Owners

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Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby Sparki55 » Jan 23rd, 2018, 8:41 am

https://www.castanet.net/news/Letters/216710/How-do-you-spell-boycott

I agree to some extent that people deserve a fair wage to allow them the necessitates in life but we really need to change our attitude towards business owners. Excluding CEOs who make millions, most small business owners take home under $100,000 a year. These owners will be the ones affected directly by the salaries they pay their employees.

The letter to the editor states owners need to pay more and not think about their own bottom line, as in these greedy owners have it so easy since they own a business and shouldn't afford to buy luxuries. If its so :cuss: easy then why don't all you whinners and conplainers open your own business and take your own cut?

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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby JLives » Jan 23rd, 2018, 8:47 am

If everyone opened a business there would be nobody to work for them. We NEED workers and they need to be paid enough to live on.
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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby Grandan » Jan 23rd, 2018, 9:23 am

JLives wrote:If everyone opened a business there would be nobody to work for them. We NEED workers and they need to be paid enough to live on.

If every business paid a living wage there would be a lot fewer in business. If you think you are not earning enough to "live on" then what is wrong with setting your sights a little lower? I never expected to be able to rent a house or apartment when I was exiting my teens, I moved into a shared residence with 3 other couples, also known as a communal house. I attended university while living there. Later, while still going to school, my wife and I rented a large house and then sublet rooms to singles. We earned enough that way to pay the rent from just our tenants. We didn't expect to buy a fine new home or even a fine older home, we bought what we could afford and fixed it up. Only once in my life I went to the boss and asked for a raise so that I could qualify for a mortgage, I know it was cheeky but it worked.
And one more thing, I didn't have a huge debt from a car loan, student loan or smart phone or take holidays on my credit card.
Waste not

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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby Even Steven » Jan 23rd, 2018, 9:48 am

I'm all up for paying people more as long as people understand that prices will go up. You want $20/hour min. wage? Sure, just don't whine and complain about $9 loaf of bread.

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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby Jhunter199 » Jan 23rd, 2018, 10:15 am

Do people deserve a fair wage? Yes absolutely, but they also need some sort of employable skill too. This letter stating that small business owners shouldn't be in business if they can't afford to pay a livable wage is ridiculous. Most small business's profit margin is somewhere in the 6-9% range, if wages, utilities, rent, or any other expense goes up guess what else must go up... Yep the cost to the consumer. I would bet that the author of this letter is one like many that complain for higher wages and then run the Walmart, Superstore, online to Amazon instead of our locally owner and operated stores and shops. Well guess what, this cycle continues you will no longer need to complain about small business paying wages of any kind.

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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby kgcayenne » Jan 23rd, 2018, 11:10 am

A tourism-based economy is unsustainable, which means we, as a community of business owners and employees, need to send a clear message to the valley’s Cities that there needs to be a shift in public relations and business incentives to attract better occupations. We are sorely imbalanced here.
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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby Grandan » Jan 23rd, 2018, 1:35 pm

kgcayenne wrote:A tourism-based economy is unsustainable, which means we, as a community of business owners and employees, need to send a clear message to the valley’s Cities that there needs to be a shift in public relations and business incentives to attract better occupations. We are sorely imbalanced here.

Maybe we can open a few more mines or possibly a pulp mill or oil refinery to add to the pollution in a valley that suffers severe winter inversions. Businesses are started by entrepreneurs not whiners. Workers are paid a wage based on the market.
The City of Kelowna has worked hard to create the kind of environment that attracts investment, that's what creates jobs.
Too many people on the lower rungs are simply looking for a handout. You need marketable skills to sustain yourself in Kelowna, you can't expect employers to employ you just because you are a good guy, you have to produce or you are gone.
Tourism is only part of the solution, there are many more moving parts to juggle to make it sustainable. I see no imbalance at all.
Waste not

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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby Sparki55 » Jan 23rd, 2018, 2:47 pm

Grandan wrote:You need marketable skills to sustain yourself in Kelowna, you can't expect employers to employ you just because you are a good guy, you have to produce or you are gone.


Some really seem to miss this point. Anyone can serve food or clean hotel rooms, nevermind something even less demanding such as car wash attendant. People who perfrom well in these jobs will be paid a little extra to as an incentive to stay on and avoid the need to train a new employee at an expense. The employer is however not required to pay you more simply because you show up everyday. Anyone can do this and the employer knows that so they will just hire another person if you don't like it. If you don't like what you are paid then learn a new skill which can make your employer more,money and you will be rewarded. Change jobs, learn a trade, it's not rocket science.

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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby kgcayenne » Jan 23rd, 2018, 3:57 pm

A community is not built on minimum wage, dead-end jobs. People can train and get certified up the wazoo, but if enough higher-paying positions are elsewhere, the well-trained people (who contribute more to the economy than min-wagers, seasonal inhabitants) bugger-off.

Another thing: How come no one points out that there are employers who don’t want to grow and mature beyond minimum wage kinds of businesses? Maybe they’re too comfortable with their employees’ subsidizing those businesses.
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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby Temet Nosce » Jan 23rd, 2018, 4:06 pm

kgcayenne wrote:A tourism-based economy is unsustainable, which means we, as a community of business owners and employees, need to send a clear message to the valley’s Cities that there needs to be a shift in public relations and business incentives to attract better occupations. We are sorely imbalanced here.



https://www.kelowna.ca/our-community/ne ... ne-kelowna’s-draft-vision-open-feedback

https://imagine.kelowna.ca/
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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby Sparki55 » Jan 23rd, 2018, 4:49 pm

kgcayenne wrote:A community is not built on minimum wage, dead-end jobs. People can train and get certified up the wazoo, but if enough higher-paying positions are elsewhere, the well-trained people (who contribute more to the economy than min-wagers, seasonal inhabitants) bugger-off.

Another thing: How come no one points out that there are employers who don’t want to grow and mature beyond minimum wage kinds of businesses? Maybe they’re too comfortable with their employees’ subsidizing those businesses.


Not all business support good jobs, reaturants will not hire engineers, hotels won't hire nurses. Your response lacks reasoning to an extreme.
The businesses which aren't growing are not subsidising their business with their employees, they are paying market wage for a service the employee performs, if you don't want a low paying job move companies, you may need to move towns. California is the IT hub of western America, not every town can have that sort of booming. Long shoreman jobs are only available on the coast. Get real, different community's have different industries, ours is similar to whistlers, we're a tourist hub.

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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby LTD » Jan 23rd, 2018, 6:11 pm

I find it shocking how many people have no clue what it takes to run a business the comment in that letter "a license to print money" confirms that a lot of people are just plain clueless minimum wage jobs are meant to be temporary until you get your trade or degree or whatever, paying someone 20 bucks an hour to pick their nose and flip burgers is absurd .

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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby Omnitheo » Jan 23rd, 2018, 6:30 pm

you are not entitled to run a business.
It is extremely selfish to believe that you can take someone else’s work and not provide them with a basic living wage. If you can’t afford to run a business and pay an appropriate wage, you do not deserve to be in business. Bottom line.

Keep in mind the vast majority of businesses that pay minimum wage are the ones with millionaires and billionaires at the top. And the money they don’t spend on their employees they horde and spend lobbying to perpetuate this nonesense you are all guzzling about how people don’t deserve to be paid enough.

It shouldn’t matter what your job is, if you are putting in 8 hours of work, 5 days a week. You deserve to make enough money to live on, nobody is saying you should make enough money to buy a house or an SUV or eat steak every night. Just that you deserve to be able to live. Yes people making min wage are still going to need to get roommates. To take the bus to work and school. But it’s a start. It’s better than sharing a couch in a 1 bedroom rental split 3 ways, eating Mr Noodles for all your meals.

We want Canadians to start families, to invest more heavily in the economy, we need to provide them a means to do so.

I don’t get where this skill bs is coming from. You think people at fast food aren’t working hard? On their feet for 8 hours often without breaks, in a hazardous and stressful environment. Hot kitchen, a dozen things beeping, a constant rush to keep up with orders and push them out as fast as possible. Many of these workers are likely working harder, and more skilled at their job than you at yours. But after 40 hours a week of this, they don’t deserve to make enough money to afford rent? Get off your high horse.

How about people doing hard labour? Maybe they don’t have a lot of skills, but you’re exploiting their bodies to move things around. You think they aren’t working harder than someone sitting at a desk punching some numbers? That after 40 hours of back breaking labour they shouldn’t be able to afford a decent meal? Or a vehicle to drive home in?

Why should we stop shaming business owners? Any business paying minimum wage is literally saying to it’s employees “We would pay you less but it would be illegal”. If a business is gonna cry about min wage, then they shouldn’t be in business. Like the Calgary restaurant that closed recently because it had to pay a higher min wage (and bragged about their chandeliers, fireplaces, and 45$ steaks). When businesses get their priorities straight, they can pay a proper wage and salary. Or they can get out of business and work for someone else who is capable of paying properly.
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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby kgcayenne » Jan 23rd, 2018, 6:51 pm

Sparki55 wrote:
kgcayenne wrote:A community is not built on minimum wage, dead-end jobs. People can train and get certified up the wazoo, but if enough higher-paying positions are elsewhere, the well-trained people (who contribute more to the economy than min-wagers, seasonal inhabitants) bugger-off.

Another thing: How come no one points out that there are employers who don’t want to grow and mature beyond minimum wage kinds of businesses? Maybe they’re too comfortable with their employees’ subsidizing those businesses.


Not all business support good jobs, reaturants will not hire engineers, hotels won't hire nurses. Your response lacks reasoning to an extreme.
The businesses which aren't growing are not subsidising their business with their employees, they are paying market wage for a service the employee performs, if you don't want a low paying job move companies, you may need to move towns. California is the IT hub of western America, not every town can have that sort of booming. Long shoreman jobs are only available on the coast. Get real, different community's have different industries, ours is similar to whistlers, we're a tourist hub.


I find it interesting that you’ve got your heart set on the idea that I’m slogging it out resentfully in a tourism-fed job. I’m actually not, not at all.

I have lived here for close to 45 years and remember a time when there was industry. It was easy to have fun here at amusement parks and recreational facilities.

Change is not always good.

In the last ten years, the condo I’d last rented for $750/mo has just been advertised for $1300/mo. It has the carpet that was installed in 1996 when it was built and same (distinctive) paint job I’d given it in 2004. Average wages in the community didn’t double, and nor did minimum wage.

Utilities and food have all increased substantially, as well.
Last edited by kgcayenne on Jan 23rd, 2018, 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stop Shaming Business Owners

Postby LTD » Jan 23rd, 2018, 7:01 pm

Omnitheo wrote:you are not entitled to run a business.
It is extremely selfish to believe that you can take someone else’s work and not provide them with a basic living wage. If you can’t afford to run a business and pay an appropriate wage, you do not deserve to be in business. Bottom line.

Keep in mind the vast majority of businesses that pay minimum wage are the ones with millionaires and billionaires at the top. And the money they don’t spend on their employees they horde and spend lobbying to perpetuate this nonesense you are all guzzling about how people don’t deserve to be paid enough.

It shouldn’t matter what your job is, if you are putting in 8 hours of work, 5 days a week. You deserve to make enough money to live on, nobody is saying you should make enough money to buy a house or an SUV or eat steak every night. Just that you deserve to be able to live. Yes people making min wage are still going to need to get roommates. To take the bus to work and school. But it’s a start. It’s better than sharing a couch in a 1 bedroom rental split 3 ways, eating Mr Noodles for all your meals.

We want Canadians to start families, to invest more heavily in the economy, we need to provide them a means to do so.

I don’t get where this skill bs is coming from. You think people at fast food aren’t working hard? On their feet for 8 hours often without breaks, in a hazardous and stressful environment. Hot kitchen, a dozen things beeping, a constant rush to keep up with orders and push them out as fast as possible. Many of these workers are likely working harder, and more skilled at their job than you at yours. But after 40 hours a week of this, they don’t deserve to make enough money to afford rent? Get off your high horse.

How about people doing hard labour? Maybe they don’t have a lot of skills, but you’re exploiting their bodies to move things around. You think they aren’t working harder than someone sitting at a desk punching some numbers? That after 40 hours of back breaking labour they shouldn’t be able to afford a decent meal? Or a vehicle to drive home in?

Why should we stop shaming business owners? Any business paying minimum wage is literally saying to it’s employees “We would pay you less but it would be illegal”. If a business is gonna cry about min wage, then they shouldn’t be in business. Like the Calgary restaurant that closed recently because it had to pay a higher min wage (and bragged about their chandeliers, fireplaces, and 45$ steaks). When businesses get their priorities straight, they can pay a proper wage and salary. Or they can get out of business and work for someone else who is capable of paying properly.

yup thanks for for proving my point clueless

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