Stop Shaming Business Owners

[Veovis]

Because they are terrified of losing what little job security they have have and missing one paycheque puts them on the street. They clock in, clock out and don't rock the boat.

So everyone is a victim then?

I recall being underpaid and after talking to my boss I got a raise, as I deserved it. Just showing up doesn't equal a raise.

I also know what I can make, and I know what I do make. I'd like more, but I know what I get and why.....and it's not because my employer abuses me.

Want more, get it. It is possible and happens all the time, the life you want isn't handed to you, you need to take it.

[Dizzy1]

Because they are terrified of losing what little job security they have have and missing one paycheque puts them on the street. They clock in, clock out and don't rock the boat.

So coddle those who didn't take a risk and shame those who did - cool

[rustled]

So if I understand this correctly: despite not getting a raise for years, significant numbers of middle aged women are staying at a minimum wage job. These women are too terrified of losing this job to look for work elsewhere. Therefore, their employers are responsible for keeping these women living in poverty.

Is this what you're saying?

And you believe this problem would be solved by raising the minimum wage?

[Veovis]

So if I understand this correctly: despite not getting a raise for years, significant numbers of middle aged women are staying at a minimum wage job. These women are too terrified of losing this job to look for work elsewhere. Therefore, their employers are responsible for keeping these women living in poverty.

Is this what you're saying?

And you believe this problem would be solved by raising the minimum wage?

By some people's logic yes. It fixes everything. Personal choice and effort matters not at all if you can claim victimhood.....


However there is an actual issue with mid to later aged women being in these jobs though. No marketable skills. They stayed home with kids and now don't have a skill other than willingness to work. I see the issue, however a T4 and tax return shows income, and alimony doesn't count as taxable, so you have many people who just want to work as the kids are gone, and people who now have a split marriage and have other income not reported.....none of this is factored in the dogma we receive for the "poor me".

Are some people in a tough spot, sure, and I can sympathize, but the argument that it is the standard is not the standard.

[Dizzy1]

So if I understand this correctly: despite not getting a raise for years, significant numbers of middle aged women are staying at a minimum wage job. These women are too terrified of losing this job to look for work elsewhere. Therefore, their employers are responsible for keeping these women living in poverty.

Is this what you're saying?

And you believe this problem would be solved by raising the minimum wage?

Including the middle aged women workers who are now successful business woman, because they took a leap of faith despite themselves being terrified of losing a job to look for work elsewhere?

[kgcayenne]

What about people whose bodies have been damaged significantly by RMI while employed at that higher wage job who can now only get low-paid work? What about people who have debilitating illness and don’t qualify for PWD? I know a bunch of you think PWD designation is handed out like candy, but I assure you, the tick boxes are seemingly innumerable and there are a lot of people with invisible disabilities that cannot get help. Are YOU willing to employ a person with a brain injury and deal with the personality difficulties and cognitive deficits? Most of the time, they bounce around from job to job—minimum wage jobs.

[Grandan]

Owners were workers at one point in time too, and still are. Difference is that they chose not to remain in a low wage, dead end job

That's a big assumption that minimum wage workers are choosing that life. Everyone has different circumstances. All of the adults I know on it are middle aged women who either worked in the trades and wrecked their bodies, are widows or raised the family and went through a split late in life.

Why do these women never receive increases in pay?

Honestly, I can't imagine why anyone would find it necessary to stay at a job where their wage was permanently fixed at the minimum.

My wife was a cashier when they were paid as much as a registered nurse. Then we had 4 kids. When our kids were old enough she tried to get back in to one of the chain groceries in Kelowna but no luck so she went back to school to become an RN. It was hard work that lasted over 4 years but she made it and pulled in big bucks for many years as a result. She was pushing 40 when she returned to school and did not like the specter of minimum wages for the rest of her life. There is a path forward, it is not all doom and gloom.

[Grandan]

So if I understand this correctly: despite not getting a raise for years, significant numbers of middle aged women are staying at a minimum wage job. These women are too terrified of losing this job to look for work elsewhere. Therefore, their employers are responsible for keeping these women living in poverty.

Is this what you're saying?

And you believe this problem would be solved by raising the minimum wage?

Including the middle aged women workers who are now successful business woman, because they took a leap of faith despite themselves being terrified of losing a job to look for work elsewhere?

I know of at least 1 woman who bet $40,000 on opening a business in Kelowna and struggled to keep it open for years before she finally had to admit defeat. She didn't get to walk away from the debt that was left behind. Dreams shattered.

[rustled]

What about people whose bodies have been damaged significantly by RMI while employed at that higher wage job who can now only get low-paid work? What about people who have debilitating illness and don’t qualify for PWD? I know a bunch of you think PWD designation is handed out like candy, but I assure you, the tick boxes are seemingly innumerable and there are a lot of people with invisible disabilities that cannot get help. Are YOU willing to employ a person with a brain injury and deal with the personality difficulties and cognitive deficits? Most of the time, they bounce around from job to job—minimum wage jobs.

Again, raising the minimum wage cannot solve these problems. Shaming business owners won't solve these problem.

You're talking about the need for better retraining programs for those injured on the job, or better supports for those who cannot be retrained. Target money where it's needed, creating additional or better-paid jobs for those who provide these supports.

I completely agree the PWD designation is ridiculously difficult to get. The solution for that is NOT to raise the minimum wage, it is to fix the PWD designation system. Properly paid advocates to cut through the red tape would be a start. Properly targeted money where it's needed.

Do you think raising the minimum wage will make it easier for employers to take a chance on a person with a brain injury and cognitive deficits? Their other now-better-paid-employees will very likely be spending a great deal more of their time helping a brain injured newbie learn the ropes than they would spend helping someone without a brain injury and cognitive deficits, and the lower productivity of these employees is now also costing them more because they, too, are earning a higher wage. In all likelihood, raising the minimum wage can only reduce opportunities for people with brain injuries to find paid work. Instead of pretending we can fix these problems by shaming the employers into paying everyone more, we need job-shadow programs and mentoring programs. That puts targeted money where it's needed.

JLives wants the minimum wage to go up to help middle-aged women who are trapped in low-payed jobs. I have difficulty imagining the scenario she's describing is as widespread and as outside the control of these women as she makes it out to be, but if it is indeed a problem we should address, we won't do it by forcing all business owners and all employers to pay all their employees more. I can envision a host of targeted initiatives to give these women a hand up.

I find it highly unlikely a great many people stay indefinitely at minimum wage. It's the wage some of them start at. Shaming the business owners is just as pointless as shaming the employees who never get beyond low-paid work. We need real solutions, not over-simplified lip-service feel-good scattershot theories.

[rustled]

I know of at least 1 woman who bet $40,000 on opening a business in Kelowna and struggled to keep it open for years before she finally had to admit defeat. She didn't get to walk away from the debt that was left behind. Dreams shattered.

That's harsh. I hope she doesn't let it keep her down. And I hope no one was shaming her while she struggled to keep it open.

If you don't mind saying, what's she doing now?

[Jhunter199]

Why do these women never receive increases in pay?

Honestly, I can't imagine why anyone would find it necessary to stay at a job where their wage was permanently fixed at the minimum.

Because they are terrified of losing what little job security they have have and missing one paycheque puts them on the street. They clock in, clock out and don't rock the boat.

While I don't question that this situation exists everywhere, hell I was in this situation too when I was much younger. One can't live life in fear, they need to hit a point where the light bulb goes on and say screw it!!! This isn't what I want and start bettering their situation. A couple night classes at the college, online courses, seeking out new employment or even part time to test out the culture of the company. One can't just sit back in life without trying to better their own lives and expect everyone else to do it for them.

[HorganIsMyHero]

start bettering their situation. A couple night classes at the college, online courses, seeking out new employment or even part time to test out the culture of the company

I get why people keep giving these blanket answers that everyone can better himself or herself through some courses and gumption, but so many people still fall through the cracks.

This has been brought up in numerous threads but due to discrimination, location, family duties and basically......a billion other factors there are people who get stuck in minimum wage or extremely low-paying jobs their entire lives.

We should be recognizing there's a problem instead of continually shouting nonsense about hoe they're just not trying hard enough.

[Grandan]

I know of at least 1 woman who bet $40,000 on opening a business in Kelowna and struggled to keep it open for years before she finally had to admit defeat. She didn't get to walk away from the debt that was left behind. Dreams shattered.

That's harsh. I hope she doesn't let it keep her down. And I hope no one was shaming her while she struggled to keep it open.

If you don't mind saying, what's she doing now?

I think she turned to online orders but the cost of setting up a brick and mortar street front presence cannot be recovered.
The number of business failures in Kelowna is quite high with fortunes lost in the process.

[rustled]

start bettering their situation. A couple night classes at the college, online courses, seeking out new employment or even part time to test out the culture of the company

I get why people keep giving these blanket answers that everyone can better himself or herself through some courses and gumption, but so many people still fall through the cracks.

This has been brought up in numerous threads but due to discrimination, location, family duties and basically......a billion other factors there are people who get stuck in minimum wage or extremely low-paying jobs their entire lives.

We should be recognizing there's a problem instead of continually shouting nonsense about hoe they're just not trying hard enough.

I agree, blanket answers are seldom the answer. "Raise the minimum wage so people can live on it" is a blanket answer.

The more we reduce incentives for those who do try harder, the harder we make it for people who could be more successful simply by making a reasonable effort to improve their circumstances for themselves, and the less resources we have for those who do need a hand up.

[dirtybiker]

The number of business failures in Kelowna is quite high with fortunes lost in the process.

That said; Failures are educational. Some of the most successful
have a whole string of failures in their past.

Some failures at business put former business owners into the position of
'best employee' status.
They know what it takes, and respect that.

If more employees treated their employment like it was their own
business, there would be more success.

Not just' clock in, clock out, stare at the clock....