Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Days

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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby youjustcomplain » Mar 6th, 2018, 1:47 pm

Yes. Humans encroach on animals habitat and it leads to devastation on for most species. But, that has nothing to do with climate change, at least, not directly. If we move into the Arctic and cause 2 oil spills, yes, it will have an impact. This really seems like more of a misdirection though as it doesn't address humans ability to change the climate by adding carbon to the atmosphere.

I agree. Most animals are quite adaptable. They have to be and if they weren't, they'd not longer exist. Polar bears will adapt until they can't anymore and then they'll be gone. They'll join the other 99% of species to become extinct.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/WorldOfChange/decadaltemp.php
"According to an ongoing temperature analysis conducted by scientists at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), the average global temperature on Earth has increased by about 0.8° Celsius (1.4° Fahrenheit) since 1880. Two-thirds of the warming has occurred since 1975, at a rate of roughly 0.15-0.20°C per decade."



"But climate change will not, has not, hurt the polar bears."
How can you say this? You know that climate change will not hurt the polar bears? How do you know?
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby Silverstarqueen » Mar 6th, 2018, 7:25 pm

youjustcomplain wrote:Yes. Humans encroach on animals habitat and it leads to devastation on for most species. But, that has nothing to do with climate change, at least, not directly. If we move into the Arctic and cause 2 oil spills, yes, it will have an impact. This really seems like more of a misdirection though as it doesn't address humans ability to change the climate by adding carbon to the atmosphere.

I agree. Most animals are quite adaptable. They have to be and if they weren't, they'd not longer exist. Polar bears will adapt until they can't anymore and then they'll be gone. They'll join the other 99% of species to become extinct.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/WorldOfChange/decadaltemp.php
"According to an ongoing temperature analysis conducted by scientists at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), the average global temperature on Earth has increased by about 0.8° Celsius (1.4° Fahrenheit) since 1880. Two-thirds of the warming has occurred since 1975, at a rate of roughly 0.15-0.20°C per decade."



"But climate change will not, has not, hurt the polar bears."
How can you say this? You know that climate change will not hurt the polar bears? How do you know?


Because polar bears have been around for (estimated) 400,000 to 150,000 years, and so have survived previous warming periods. They have already demonstrated they can survive major temperature changes. IF they disappear it will more likely be due to human pressures, not climate change.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/des ... study-says

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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby Silverstarqueen » Mar 18th, 2018, 11:47 am

Snowing again in the British Isles and Europe:

http://www.euronews.com/2018/03/18/beas ... er-weekend

Winter making a comeback in Germany:

https://www.thelocal.de/20180315/winter ... or-germany
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby Silverstarqueen » Mar 21st, 2018, 8:38 am

U.K. Facing possibility of a "White Easter".

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/ ... 018-Spring
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby Omnitheo » Mar 21st, 2018, 4:48 pm

Still don’t understand the difference between weather and climate I see. Come back to me when year over year a London has snow in Easter and the temperatures trend downwards. Don’t give me this anomaly crap. Any meteorologist can explain to you the cause of such weather.
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby Silverstarqueen » Mar 22nd, 2018, 5:33 am

Which is exactly my point, Alaska losing a bunch of ice in just 8 days, is pointed to as an example of major climate shifts. It is one event, not necessarily a trend. People use weather anomalies every day as examples of climate change. Due to the title chosen, this thread is apparently about odd weather events, not climate change.
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby Omnitheo » Mar 23rd, 2018, 2:56 pm

Fair enough.
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby Silverstarqueen » Mar 26th, 2018, 7:57 am

Recent weather in Romania: These cold snaps this winter in Europe have not been minor, lives have been lost "A municipal worker clears ice and snow from the platforms of the Gara de Nord, the main railway station in Bucharest, Romania, Friday, March 23, 2018.
Heavy snow and flooding wreaked havoc across eastern Europe on Friday, closing down roads, flooding homes and stopping ferries at the Adriatic coast while in Romania more than 50 trains were canceled and schools were closed in the southern regions of the country.(AP Photo/Vadim Ghirda)"
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby youjustcomplain » Mar 26th, 2018, 9:11 am

Silverstarqueen wrote:Recent weather in Romania: These cold snaps this winter in Europe have not been minor, lives have been lost "A municipal worker clears ice and snow from the platforms of the Gara de Nord, the main railway station in Bucharest, Romania, Friday, March 23, 2018.
Heavy snow and flooding wreaked havoc across eastern Europe on Friday, closing down roads, flooding homes and stopping ferries at the Adriatic coast while in Romania more than 50 trains were canceled and schools were closed in the southern regions of the country.(AP Photo/Vadim Ghirda)"
More from Gazette.com


Nobody here seems more passionate about proving Climate Change is real than you are about trying to prove it's not. Why is that? Who are you trying to hammer your way of thinking into?

I think that most people accept climate change, for a number of reasons. Weather is one such reason that leads people to believe in it. However, I'm not saying that snow fall in late March = climate change. I'm saying that people see snowfall in late march and it reinforces what they hear scientists telling them; that climate change is real. Snow fall in late march doesn't mean climate change, but when climate scientists point to warming trends over a period of time, I'm ok with accepting it at face value. Adding tons of carbon to our atmosphere isn't good.

Now, I'm not a believer in the numbers that some scientists have used. Like their 100 year warming predictions. Using any number really just opens the door having all their work tossed out if they over estimate which seems to be what some people really cling to in order to claim that climate change isn't real. It's either, "hey, look at these charts", or "hey, scientists said it would be hotter by now, but it isn't, so they were wrong, which means I must be right !"
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby Silverstarqueen » Mar 26th, 2018, 12:47 pm

I don't create the weather, I am just reporting it. It happens to be colder and snowier than normal in Europe this year.
This might make some people unhappy (especially those living in Europe), including those who would like it to be warmer to support their favorite warmist theories. There is absolutely nothing we can do about the weather to help those people (at least not with current technologies).

Climate varies, we know that, just looking at graphs from the last 10,000 or 40,000 or 100,000 years. We know it has warmed because people would never have made it all over the world in the last 60 to 100,000 years. We know it has cooled, as ancient bones come out of the ice glaciers melting. What we don't know is when the next cooling or warming period will come. Or all the forces that are causing it to change. So I am definitely not trying to prove that climate does not change.
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby youjustcomplain » Mar 26th, 2018, 1:55 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote:I don't create the weather, I am just reporting it. It happens to be colder and snowier than normal in Europe this year.
This might make some people unhappy (especially those living in Europe), including those who would like it to be warmer to support their favorite warmist theories. There is absolutely nothing we can do about the weather to help those people (at least not with current technologies).

Climate varies, we know that, just looking at graphs from the last 10,000 or 40,000 or 100,000 years. We know it has warmed because people would never have made it all over the world in the last 60 to 100,000 years. We know it has cooled, as ancient bones come out of the ice glaciers melting. What we don't know is when the next cooling or warming period will come. Or all the forces that are causing it to change. So I am definitely not trying to prove that climate does not change.


Then it's quite possible I misunderstood something.
Do you believe that humans have no impact on climate change? I'm guessing that this is more the crux of our potential disagreement. :)
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby Silverstarqueen » Mar 26th, 2018, 7:28 pm

I look at sea level rise, which has been 120 Meters in the last 18000 years. That's a lot of warming, a lot of glaciers and ice melting. What caused that? It wasn't humans. So maybe humans have added a wee bit to that in the last hundred years. What's it been? 4 -6" I've read, effect on a 120 Meter trend that was headed that way anyway. It's like a ball rolling down a hillside, and someone is claiming credit for it when they helped push it down the last 10 yards. There are periods in the earth's past where sea level rose 2 meters per century. Wow, and we are freaking out over a possible 6" rise in a century. What if those natural forces once again cause a 2 meter per century rise? What will the human race do about that? People might have to move out of Richmond/Delta. Check out the graph where it shows the increase in sea level over the last 18000 years.

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/earth107/node/907
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby csm » Mar 27th, 2018, 8:53 am

It's all a scam to suck more money out of our pockets. 12,000 years ago there was an ice age ( that encompassed almost the whole planet ), and 1000 years ago there was a global warming event that made the planet hotter than it is today ( not if you take this winter into account), and a simple check of the history books and past weather patterns prove the environment is cyclical, as is the polar caps. Polar shifts have happened in the past and will do so again.

There is also the factor the whole solar system is changing. Check out NASA's information about atmosphere's now emerging or thickening on planets such as Mars and Pluto. The perpetual storm on Jupitor is shrinking, there is also indications that our solar system is entering a super heated cosmic cloud and solar flashes and flares are on the horizon.

The sun can fry us in an instant if it decides to send one of it's enormous solar flares our way ( it's missed us a few times already).

No arguement that humans have an impact on the environment, just as the Dinosaurs did 63 million years ago, when the planet was much different and much hotter than it is today.

The planet will change, and we have to change with it or cease to exist. Nothing is forever, so enjoy what you have today because no matter how much they suck out of us, nothing is guaranteed.

One thing for sure, with nearly 7 billion people on the planet, a few bucks of "Carbon Tax" from us "rich" western folk, will be no more effective than a fly-fart in a hurricane as there is no technology in existence that will save us from what ever the cosmos throws at us. This ride is terminal - just when is anybody's guess.
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby Silverstarqueen » Mar 27th, 2018, 9:36 am

What is going to kill us far faster than some global warming is there are too many people on the planet, and they are producing way too much pollution. Reining in population growth is doable (unlike trying to change major atmospheric forces). Cleaning up present pollution is far more important, and producing less waste/pollution. Moving populations away from very low coastal areas would mitigate sea level rising. If you want people to use less carbon/petroleum based fuels all you have to do is provide an economical alternative. You want wind and solar panels? How come they are less affordable and cost effective than the alternatives? Why aren't solar panels, wind generators, everywhere in Canada, when we need so much fuel to heat homes, and move vehicles? Why are we building neighborhoods so far from city center, everyone has to travel miles to get from A to B? So many changes that could be made, not happening. Our society as we know it is not sustainable.
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Re: Alaska's Bering Sea Lost a Third of Its Ice in Just 8 Da

Postby youjustcomplain » Mar 27th, 2018, 9:42 am

csm wrote:It's all a scam to suck more money out of our pockets. 12,000 years ago there was an ice age ( that encompassed almost the whole planet ), and 1000 years ago there was a global warming event that made the planet hotter than it is today ( not if you take this winter into account), and a simple check of the history books and past weather patterns prove the environment is cyclical, as is the polar caps. Polar shifts have happened in the past and will do so again.

There is also the factor the whole solar system is changing. Check out NASA's information about atmosphere's now emerging or thickening on planets such as Mars and Pluto. The perpetual storm on Jupitor is shrinking, there is also indications that our solar system is entering a super heated cosmic cloud and solar flashes and flares are on the horizon.

The sun can fry us in an instant if it decides to send one of it's enormous solar flares our way ( it's missed us a few times already).

No arguement that humans have an impact on the environment, just as the Dinosaurs did 63 million years ago, when the planet was much different and much hotter than it is today.

The planet will change, and we have to change with it or cease to exist. Nothing is forever, so enjoy what you have today because no matter how much they suck out of us, nothing is guaranteed.

One thing for sure, with nearly 7 billion people on the planet, a few bucks of "Carbon Tax" from us "rich" western folk, will be no more effective than a fly-fart in a hurricane as there is no technology in existence that will save us from what ever the cosmos throws at us. This ride is terminal - just when is anybody's guess.


Oh please. Your thinking is that everything around us is beyond our control, so enjoy the ride. I can only speak for myself, but I hope to leave this world as a place where my kids and (someday grandkids) can enjoy life and prosper.

To blame our climate change on the solar system is nothing but an attempt to scapegoat. How important is the size of the storm on Jupiter? It's unrelated to our climate and whether humans have impact on it. Do you know that the storm size change is a new thing? I don't think we've been able to study that storm for very long, so anything we learn about it is going to be new information. Hard to track that change over thousands of years.

Cash grab? I agree that the carbon tax we're paying isn't doing much to help the problem, but the 97% of climate scientists who agree that humans almost definitely have an impact on our climate aren't saying that to make money from taxes. So, one has to ask themselves.. Why do scientists agree on this, but us regular folk are divided?

If 97% of doctors agreed that vaccinating your kids is a good idea, would the public still be unable to agree? oh.... bad example I guess. :)

Honestly, when I read your comments, I thought you came across as Apathetic to the concept of human influenced climate change.. Then I read your signature and thought it was a bit... ironic?
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