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Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 26th, 2018, 5:31 am
by Silverstarqueen
I tried to follow Jp's convoluted (and far too verbose) arguments. He gets far too much credit because he is really good at stringing language together, even when his argument defies logic. I gave up trying to comprehend because he kept mixing up a few cogent thoughts with complete bs. How can an intelligent person argue (with a straight face):

http://pressprogress.ca/university-of-t ... ight-them/

Suppose some feminist was sitting there saying "Women can't control crazy men because women can't fight them?" Good fodder for a comedienne.

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 26th, 2018, 5:54 am
by Silverstarqueen
Jack DeBear wrote:quote="Bigjohn69"All anyone needs to know of this guy is this


The Bible is, for better or worse, the foundational document of western civilization…Its careful, respectful study can reveal things to us about what we believe and how we do and should act that can be discovered in almost no other manner.”

That one his quotes, and. Its,really all he is pushing ,a faith version of the other rightwing no mind ayn rand ./quote

Whatever Bigjohn69 means by that, it's from page 104 in Peterson's book, 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote for Chaos.

This is from a passage that follows it:

. . . when His people strayed from the path—when they disobeyed His injunctions, violated His covenants, and broke His commandments—trouble was certain to follow. If you did not do what Old Testament God demanded—whatever that might have been and however you might have tried to hide from it—you and your children and your children’s children were in terrible, serious trouble. . . . (pg. 104-105)


What a bunch of BS, eh?

I posted a link to the book, above.


That's an example of how he mixes up an interesting thought, and then throws in a buncha bs.
The bible does explain a lot of the reasons behind our behavior in western civilization. That does not mean we "should" necessarily follow all of its commands like blind sheep. Otherwise we wouldn't need a constitution or any other written laws (and yes some people believe that too). But our society's laws have deviated in a number of ways from the bible. I doubt even JP follows the bible as he says we "should".

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 26th, 2018, 7:29 am
by Jack DeBear
Silverstarqueen wrote:I tried to follow Jp's convoluted (and far too verbose) arguments. He gets far too much credit because he is really good at stringing language together, even when his argument defies logic. I gave up trying to comprehend because he kept mixing up a few cogent thoughts with complete bs. How can an intelligent person argue (with a straight face):

http://pressprogress.ca/university-of-t ... ight-them/

Suppose some feminist was sitting there saying "Women can't control crazy men because women can't fight them?" Good fodder for a comedienne.


What, Press Progress, failed to note is that the video clip they used in their article came from a discussion between Peterson and Camille Paglia.

Want to watch ‘chaos?’



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-hIVnmUdXM

Now, wasn’t that some ‘antidote?’

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 26th, 2018, 9:25 am
by Bigjohn69
What people are missin in my opinion is he is getting rich since he started his speaking tours and selling books . Which is fine but i do question his motives for diong all this . Is it to help humanity ? Or line his pockets ? You be the judge

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 26th, 2018, 9:27 am
by rustled
There's no reason to accept or agree with everything anyone says. It is all fodder for thought.

Nor is there any reason to reject everything someone says because you don't accept all of it.

We needn't choose between becoming an admiring and ardent follower, or being derisive and dismissive. And yet that seems to be the expectation of many: if yer not fer 'im, her agin' im. Today's Newspeak, apparently. IMO, it's not healthy for us personally to see the world this way, and it does the world no good in the long run if we feed this penchant for choosing sides.

IMO, this is what the author of the "dangerous" opinion piece did. In making his case for why the world should see Peterson as "dangerous", he seems to have forgotten he could instead have penned a piece that reminded us to take Peterson with a grain of salt, just as we should always do with everyone, celebrity or otherwise, who presents as an expert on anything. As a former publisher of the Walrus and a professor emeritus, one would have thought ... well, perhaps he's just as caught up in the Newspeak as everyone else seems to be.

Tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance.

None of us need to accept the premises we're presented with. Is Peterson dangerous? IMO, he's both as dangerous and as harmless as any other celebrity expert. He provides plenty of fodder for thought. Just take whatever he's selling today with a healthy grain of salt, and you'll be fine.

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 26th, 2018, 10:11 am
by Jack DeBear
Bravo, rustled! :clapping:

But Peterson himself admits he’s dangerous. :biggrin:


Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 26th, 2018, 10:12 am
by Jack DeBear
Question after watching this again?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-hIVnmUdXM

Camille Paglia & Jordan Peterson – Modern Times Transcript

http://jordanbpeterson.com/transcripts/camille-paglia/

So is Paglia to women as Peterson is to men?

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 26th, 2018, 10:25 am
by rustled
Jack DeBear wrote:Bravo, rustled! :clapping:
I blush.
Jack DeBear wrote:But Peterson himself admits he’s dangerous. :biggrin:


Aye, but I don't believe everything he says simply because he says it. :biggrin:

I'd suggest some of what he says is dangerous to some who would prefer we not question their claims of victimhood, and to some who are struggling to keep the social narrative focused in a specific way.

Mostly, I'd suggest the biggest danger is in accepting all of what he says at face value. That's true of everyone, but particularly true of anyone who has charisma and is articulate. And in some respects, he poses a rather large danger to himself. He's far more compelling when presents with humility.

IMO, he'd be more dangerous if he possessed Fry's humility.

ETA: Will watch the Paglia piece when I have time.

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 26th, 2018, 11:47 am
by Silverstarqueen
Jack DeBear wrote:Bravo, rustled! :clapping:

But Peterson himself admits he’s dangerous. :biggrin:



The only reason JP might be dangerous is because he does not recognize any authority above himself.
I have always made it a point to avoid those sorts of people for that reason.

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 26th, 2018, 12:17 pm
by Jack DeBear
Hi silverstarqueen,

So, as the above, If you will, please, I'm curious to know what you think re, 'is Paglia to women as Peterson is to men?'

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 26th, 2018, 12:25 pm
by Jack DeBear
Hi, (levelheaded) rustled, :biggrin:

And anyone else.

Might as well get this in on this thread from what may be an occasion of interest in general:



It's all well worth watching and has launched a storm of discussion elsewhere, but . . ..

Here's Peterson and Fry in the offstage wrap up at 1:56:34.

Peterson, “ . . . It was a pleasure sharing the stage with him. I’ve rarely heard anyone ever deliver their convictions with such a remarkable sense of passion and wit and forbearance and erudition. It was really something.”

<snip>

Fry, “You know the fact is I’m still a leftie, but a soft one. I just don’t have . . .. (moderator, ‘not too soft.) Ah yeah, flappy, squashy in every sense. And I realize that that’s not a political point of view. It’s a personal one. And the gap between the personal and the political (turns to Peterson), which is the space that you are obviously interested in as a psychologist, is one that is rarely explored. People are either so personal that it has no application in the outside world and the organization of human affairs, or they’re so political and so much to do with structure and distinguish between hierarchies and networks and so on that they forget the individual. And that’s the space in which the impassioned liberal lives, and it’s not easy to do it because you often do sound rather went and unaware . . ..”

Made me realise my personal (not gender or orientation :biggrin: ) ‘identity’ is as a Fry-guy.

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 27th, 2018, 5:13 am
by Jack DeBear
Bigjohn69 wrote:What people are missin in my opinion is he is getting rich since he started his speaking tours and selling books . Which is fine but i do question his motives for diong all this . Is it to help humanity ? Or line his pockets ? You be the judge


How U of T’s Jordan Peterson had made money from online notoriety

Jordan Peterson and the trolls in the ivory tower

<snip>

Prof. Peterson's vociferous defence of free speech isn't new to universities. What is new, however, is the way that social media has amplified the discourse – and "weaponized" and globalized this long-running drama. The professor's unrelenting stance has earned him scores of angry critics, but the attention has also helped him rack up followers. He now has almost 300,000 subscribers on YouTube and thousands of patrons on Patreon, a crowd-funded subscription content site where he earns more than $30,000 a month. On Twitter, his followers hail from Shanghai and Berlin, St. Petersburg and Pune, Toronto and San Francisco. And under the guise of anonymity, these anti-PC warriors can harass their opponents through posts, memes and videos and organize campaigns on no-holds-barred message boards.

The existence of this parallel, online space is hardly mentioned in free speech debates or arises only in lateral mentions of concerns about "safety on campus."

<snip>

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/na ... e35174379/



On the other hand . . ..

Why Do Intellectuals Oppose Dr. Jordan B. Peterson?

Peterson Popularizes Ideas From the Academy…And Is Successful Doing So

<snip>

Peterson brings in more than $60,000/month in small donations on Patreon and his lectures reach more people than the entirety of people who have ever attended the University of Toronto, ever. If that’s improving people’s lives, what could possibly be wrong with that?

That intellectuals resent Peterson’s success in the marketplace says more about their own relationship to value creation than it does of Peterson’s character.

https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/why ... b4e6dbe04c


Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 29th, 2018, 11:43 am
by Silverstarqueen
I don't care if JP is making big bucks with his public and online entertainment, more power to him (as long as he is doing it legally and pays his taxes). But he comes up with such bs such as: When asked by an interviewer "Do you think a transgendre woman is a woman? He dances around it with "I don't know what that means"( I am pretty sure he does know what that means), then finally answers the question , "No"(so he did know what that means).. Which would be fine if he had some logical defense for that position, but instead he says " I think of women as capable of having a babies". Now we all know that a woman can be a woman and not be capable of having babies, so why would he claim to believe that therefore they are not a woman? What if women act nothing like a "woman" by his definition? Having babies is just one thing that some women can do, some can't. Would Peterson accept women saying "Men have to be capable of impregnating a woman, otherwise they are not men?"

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 29th, 2018, 4:55 pm
by sobrohusfat
lol

We all know you're not that dumb - quit pretending

Re: Jordan Peterson’s BS

PostPosted: May 29th, 2018, 6:18 pm
by StraitTalk
Jordan P, if nothing else, is calling out peoples BS and showing people (especially extreme-right males) the proper way to behave and share your message.

Jordan P is a terrific example of how you state your opinion and challenge ideas without insulting or belittling anyone, and yet people still feel insulted and belittled. That is the beauty of a clear, smart straight-talker. You can watch people implode under the pressure of their own BS.

I've always believed, strongly, that if you aren't *bleep* people off, you aren't doing anything worth doing. Jordan P is a perfect example of this. The fact that people feel a need to attack his character proves just how necessary people like him are in this day and age.