Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby liisgo » Jan 11th, 2019, 8:39 pm

Sharon Elliott wrote:Addiction is a health issue just the same as diabetes, heart disease, or cancer. It is a health issue of the mind and body.
No one grows up as a child and plans on becoming addicted to any substance. When I hear people make heartless comments in regards to people who are struggling with substance abuse it is very sad. If you take some time and read medical papers and even utube doctors discussing this health concern you will learn that it is not a choice. What comes to my mind when I hear people judging is that do they realize when they visit a hospital or doctor the province or tax base is supporting them and paying for them to have health care. If you are healthy right now that is a blessing but as we age we eventually need more and more health care support, so remember when you are judging others that eventually you will be in need of support as you age and this support will be subsidized by the other good citizens of B. C and Canada.
Keep in mind everyone has hopes, dreams, feeling and suffers the same, but some people are more fortunate or lucky and have had more support or just blessed with an easier life.


So my late dad, his cancer was a choice? Did he make a conscious decision to try cancer, to walk a path that would lead him to cancer? Your comparing cancer to addiction? So one can make a decision, get help, be as strong as you need to over power cancer? No, addiction to something means you at some point tried what ever it is, and became addicted to it. At the very beginning you were not addicted to something that wasn't part of your life until that day you tried it for your first time. You were not addicted to heroin at birth, it was not part of your DNA make up.
My dad would have gone to a deserted island if meaning putting himself through the worst pain ever would have rid him of Cancer. So no, addiction is not the same as cancer.

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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby Loki2u » Jan 11th, 2019, 9:40 pm

liisgo wrote:
So my late dad, his cancer was a choice? Did he make a conscious decision to try cancer, to walk a path that would lead him to cancer? Your comparing cancer to addiction? So one can make a decision, get help, be as strong as you need to over power cancer? No, addiction to something means you at some point tried what ever it is, and became addicted to it. At the very beginning you were not addicted to something that wasn't part of your life until that day you tried it for your first time. You were not addicted to heroin at birth, it was not part of your DNA make up.
My dad would have gone to a deserted island if meaning putting himself through the worst pain ever would have rid him of Cancer. So no, addiction is not the same as cancer.


Actually, it is. They are both diseases.

But you don't have to take my word for it, you can choose to take the word of the American Medical Association or the ASAM:

https://www.asam.org/resources/definition-of-addiction

https://www.centeronaddiction.org/what- ... on-disease

Sorry for your loss.
:130:
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -Harlan Ellison-

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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby Queen K » Jan 11th, 2019, 9:50 pm

Sharon Elliott wrote:Addiction is a health issue just the same as diabetes, heart disease, or cancer. It is a health issue of the mind and body.
No one grows up as a child and plans on becoming addicted to any substance. When I hear people make heartless comments in regards to people who are struggling with substance abuse it is very sad. If you take some time and read medical papers and even utube doctors discussing this health concern you will learn that it is not a choice. What comes to my mind when I hear people judging is that do they realize when they visit a hospital or doctor the province or tax base is supporting them and paying for them to have health care. If you are healthy right now that is a blessing but as we age we eventually need more and more health care support, so remember when you are judging others that eventually you will be in need of support as you age and this support will be subsidized by the other good citizens of B. C and Canada.
Keep in mind everyone has hopes, dreams, feeling and suffers the same, but some people are more fortunate or lucky and have had more support or just blessed with an easier life.


Some are blessed with easier lives.
Some are wired to accept making really good decisions about what they will accept in their lives and not.
Others are wired to live hard, make bad decisions and not consider the consequences for their actions, or inactions.
Here I thought there was nothing lower than a snakes belly in a rut in a ditch. I was wrong.
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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby liisgo » Jan 12th, 2019, 7:45 am

[/b].[/quote]

Actually, it is. They are both diseases.

Although Addiction has been labeled by sources as a disease, it is a totally different biological medical issue. Not the same as cancer? Its a mental disorder, that yes has been stated by sources as a disease. from you sources.
"The good news is that even the most severe, chronic form of the disorder can be manageable and reversible, usually with long term treatment and continued monitoring and support for recovery. "
Is there science, tests that can show a person has the biological make up with that shows that one day he/she will be addicted to something? Or like the articles state, its based on behavioral needs and rewards for actions, thinking, a fix?
Cancer is something very different, it can be found via tests. Is in your body as a cell.
So, yes, maybe we have included so many mental issues in our disease hand book, Comparing it to cancer is not even close.
You do not make a conscious choice at some point to start a path that leads to cancer.

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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby Loki2u » Jan 12th, 2019, 9:32 am

liisgo wrote:
Although Addiction has been labeled by sources as a disease, it is a totally different biological medical issue. Not the same as cancer? Its a mental disorder, that yes has been stated by sources as a disease. from you sources.
"The good news is that even the most severe, chronic form of the disorder can be manageable and reversible, usually with long term treatment and continued monitoring and support for recovery. "
Is there science, tests that can show a person has the biological make up with that shows that one day he/she will be addicted to something? Or like the articles state, its based on behavioral needs and rewards for actions, thinking, a fix?
Cancer is something very different, it can be found via tests. Is in your body as a cell.
So, yes, maybe we have included so many mental issues in our disease hand book, Comparing it to cancer is not even close.
You do not make a conscious choice at some point to start a path that leads to cancer.


From the article: "Choice does not determine whether something is a disease. Heart disease, diabetes and some forms of cancer involve personal choices like diet, exercise, sun exposure, etc. A disease is what happens in the body as a result of those choices"

You can argue about addiction not being a disease all you want but the science isn't controversial....its not even debatable-it's a fact and has been for a long time. You are a attaching a moral stigma to the disease of addiction which makes it wrong or not relevant in your eyes.

I can post literally hundreds of links to articles and scientific journals proving addiction is a disease- the two I posted earlier took less than 2 minutes to find on a google search. As mentioned, you don't have to take my word for it. I probably won't change your mind, but I am pleased to know that you at least read the two articles I posted. Albeit, selectively perhaps.
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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby Ka-El » Jan 12th, 2019, 5:00 pm

Loki2u wrote: You can argue about addiction not being a disease all you want but the science isn't controversial....its not even debatable-it's a fact and has been for a long time. You are a attaching a moral stigma to the disease of addiction which makes it wrong or not relevant in your eyes.

There are a number of theories to explain addiction and they include both the disease theory as well as the moral theory (that addiction is a matter of making poor choices). The biopsychosocial model is the most widely accepted model today. The only theory that has been shown to completely lack in fact is the moral theory. Like all mental health issues, it is time for the general public to become more educated and informed on these issues. Solutions are not born from ignorance.
The ability to suspend judgment and change your mind when warranted is a distinguishing feature of critical thought
– apparently not recognizable to those who don’t have the ability.

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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby the truth » Jan 12th, 2019, 7:29 pm

removed.
Last edited by Triple 6 on Jan 13th, 2019, 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: tone it down now.
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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby Mordu » Jan 13th, 2019, 5:45 am

*removed*



*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Jan 13th, 2019, 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Response to removed post and baiting.

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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby Silverstarqueen » Jan 15th, 2019, 9:04 pm

Wondering about this article: Interior health serves 750,000 roughly people.
Claims there are 50,000 addicts. That's 1/15 is an addict. Seems a little high.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/2 ... cts-served
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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby tantor » Jan 16th, 2019, 7:44 am

Loki2u wrote:
liisgo wrote:
So my late dad, his cancer was a choice? Did he make a conscious decision to try cancer, to walk a path that would lead him to cancer? Your comparing cancer to addiction? So one can make a decision, get help, be as strong as you need to over power cancer? No, addiction to something means you at some point tried what ever it is, and became addicted to it. At the very beginning you were not addicted to something that wasn't part of your life until that day you tried it for your first time. You were not addicted to heroin at birth, it was not part of your DNA make up.
My dad would have gone to a deserted island if meaning putting himself through the worst pain ever would have rid him of Cancer. So no, addiction is not the same as cancer.


Actually, it is. They are both diseases.

But you don't have to take my word for it, you can choose to take the word of the American Medical Association or the ASAM:

https://www.asam.org/resources/definition-of-addiction

https://www.centeronaddiction.org/what- ... on-disease

Sorry for your loss.
:130:


What a load of bunk! I was a former opioid addict and I can tell you that no one and I mean NO ONE becomes an addict unless they themselves take the first step and use! I don't care what any medical association looking to secure funds for their agenda says. If you never try it you we never be addicted period and that is a demonstrable medical FACT. Everything is a disease nowadays. Oh you eat to much you have a disease, you drink to much you have a disease and you got addicted to drugs you have a disease. All these things are absolutely avoidable by the individual! I was addicted and I was only able to quit when I stopped blaming the world for my own actions. Telling these people it's not their fault isn't helping them at all!

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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby Ka-El » Jan 16th, 2019, 8:23 am

tantor wrote: I was addicted and I was only able to quit when I stopped blaming the world for my own actions. Telling these people it's not their fault isn't helping them at all!

Blaming other people or other things for your problems is never a solution, but I bet you never set out to be an addict the first time you used. I’m not going to say it was not your fault, but I would suggest your developed addiction was a bit more complicated (more than one factor) than just a simple one-time choice. So, dismissing the notion of fault it is still worthwhile to note there is an important distinction between fault and responsibility. No matter how a person’s addiction comes to be, it is absolutely their responsibility to do something about it. That includes asking for help if necessary.

Congratulations by the way. I’ve been working with addicts for better than twenty years and getting addicts to the place where they truly recognize their responsibility in the issue can be extremely frustrating. It is a tough place to be. I commend you on making it back.
The ability to suspend judgment and change your mind when warranted is a distinguishing feature of critical thought
– apparently not recognizable to those who don’t have the ability.

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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby the truth » Jan 16th, 2019, 9:16 am

[qute="tantor"]
Loki2u wrote:
liisgo wrote:
So my late dad, his cancer was a choice? Did he make a conscious decision to try cancer, to walk a path that would lead him to cancer? Your comparing cancer to addiction? So one can make a decision, get help, be as strong as you need to over power cancer? No, addiction to something means you at some point tried what ever it is, and became addicted to it. At the very beginning you were not addicted to something that wasn't part of your life until that day you tried it for your first time. You were not addicted to heroin at birth, it was not part of your DNA make up.
My dad would have gone to a deserted island if meaning putting himself through the worst pain ever would have rid him of Cancer. So no, addiction is not the same as cancer.


Actually, it is. They are both diseases.

But you don't have to take my word for it, you can choose to take the word of the American Medical Association or the ASAM:

https://www.asam.org/resources/definition-of-addiction

https://www.centeronaddiction.org/what- ... on-disease

Sorry for your loss.
:130:


What a load of bunk! I was a former opioid addict and I can tell you that no one and I mean NO ONE becomes an addict unless they themselves take the first step and use! I don't care what any medical association looking to secure funds for their agenda says. If you never try it you we never be addicted period and that is a demonstrable medical FACT. Everything is a disease nowadays. Oh you eat to much you have a disease, you drink to much you have a disease and you got addicted to drugs you have a disease. All these things are absolutely avoidable by the individual! I was addicted and I was only able to quit when I stopped blaming the world for my own actions. Telling these people it's not their fault isn't helping them at all![/quote]

thank you for your honesty on this issue, and like you said and i agree 100%---- medical association looking to secure funds for their-agenda--- :smt045 :-X
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell

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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby spooker » Jan 16th, 2019, 11:43 am

the truth wrote:thank you for your honesty on this issue, and like you said and i agree 100%---- medical association looking to secure funds for their-agenda--- :smt045 :-X


Of course, nothing is ever as simple as it seems and people always have nefarious reasons for all that they do ... Scientists just want to line their pockets from the public coffers as much as any politician ... And lord help us if the Social Workers jump on the gravy train too, you know the people who work with addicts only have their own interests at heart ...

</snark>

Thankfully I avoided getting addicted to anything worse than nicotine ... but growing up I watched my mother deal with her addiction and finally get the upper-hand after 12 years ... her logical side won a temporary reprieve against the maligned part of her brain that wanted the high all the time ... just as for others it will never go away entirely ... some of her friends weren't able to get out of environments where they could make the changes required to get off of it, a man that would've been my stepfather except for being part of the drug environment I got to meet again after almost 30 years back in 2008 ... three months later he was dead, there was too much damage to his heart from all the years of drug use and one morning while he was out he just dropped on the street ... he had been clean for 10 years at that point ...

Everyone makes excuses for behaviour in some way ... rationalising et al ... why do we need reasons to treat someone like a human?
--
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. -- Plato

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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby Piecemaker » Jan 16th, 2019, 12:20 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote:Wondering about this article: Interior health serves 750,000 roughly people.
Claims there are 50,000 addicts. That's 1/15 is an addict. Seems a little high.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/2 ... cts-served


I agree there needs to be some clarification. Did they serve 50,000 individuals or did those who used the service use it 50,000 times? If I used it once and you used it 10 times, is that 11 people or two?
It's possible to do all the right things and still get a bad result.
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Re: Drug Addicts with their Excuses.

Postby Lore » Jan 16th, 2019, 1:06 pm

Piecemaker wrote:
I agree there needs to be some clarification. Did they serve 50,000 individuals or did those who used the service use it 50,000 times? If I used it once and you used it 10 times, is that 11 people or two?

I had read somewhere (can't remember where) that the 50,000 individuals was counting repeat customers.
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