"Guns don't kill people"

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"Guns don't kill people"

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 9th, 2018, 6:58 am

Why can't the U.s. get a grip on all the people shooting each other?
"Guns don't kill people". so let's not control guns. Let's not control the people either, since we can't control people, they have rights, which permit them to have enough weapons to walk in anywhere and kill a dozen people if they feel like it on a bad day.

I don't care who you are, or how bad your day went, nothing excuses shooting innocent people just praying in their place of worship or out for a bit of fun one evening, or going to school, or going to work. Nothing.
Now we are finding two time survivors of mass shootings. How are they going to be doing for the next many months or years? Are they going to snap one day and let someone have it because they can't stand the stress?

The police have their hands tied. We've seen several instances of people who were unstable, and yet they had access to weapons, often legally, or hey why not raid their father's stash of weapons. If a bartender sells too much alcohol to someone, he can be held responsible for the carnage that results. IF a gun seller sells a gun to a crazy guy, that okay.

The U.s has to tighten up it's laws. If they are going to keep the 2nd amendment, fine. But then they have to do something about who is running around with a weapon and a grudge. I would also like to know why practically 99% of these killers are males. What are they teaching their young men? This latest guy didn't have a serious mental problem or he wouldn't have made it through the military, but they are under pretty strict control when serving. He was obviously not stable enough to let loose in civilian life with a weapon, and virtually no controls on his behavior. His mother knew it, he did not want to go for help with the VA. So maybe that was a sign that he shouldn't be armed, if he wouldn't even get help.

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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby alanjh595 » Nov 9th, 2018, 7:25 am

In this American town, guns are required by law

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/06/us/kenne ... index.html
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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby tantor » Nov 9th, 2018, 8:48 am

Yes they should tighten up their laws!
They should make murder illegal.
They should make a person need to have a background check and a license.
They should make it illegal for people with criminal records to own guns.
Oh wait they already have all those things. In Canada handguns are basically illegal except for those with a restricted license which carries very strict rules. Guess what most gun crimes in Canada are done with......handguns!
In cities like Detroit and Chicago which are no gun zones, they have the highest homicide by shooting crime rate. So please enlighten me on what laws do you think they can pass that will change things. How about the war on drugs? They are all illegal and it has become much worse since the war was first started. If more judges would enforce the laws that already exist, that alone would help things, but to enact a whole bunch of more laws that are not enforced or prosecuted will have a zero sum effect. Oh I know how about a gun ban, why not make the entire country just like Detroit and Chicago. Criminals will always get guns, just like they can always get cocaine or heroin which is banned. A gun ban will just produce a bunch more victims. I always hear how we in Canada are some kind of shining example of good gun control. Please get back to me when our population reaches 360 million. Kelowna alone will look like Compton when we get there. The difference will be that you will have no way to protect yourself or your family.

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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 9th, 2018, 9:02 am

Homicide by gun rate in Canada: .4-.6 per 100,000. In the U.S. overall 3.5 per 100,000. That's seven times the rate. Several states have rates up to 10, 11, 12 per 100,000. That's a rate 20 times Canada's rate. Nothing to do with the size of the population. We have different laws, and obviously we must be doing something different with the way we are educating the public. Or is it the air up here? That's a huge difference. The rate also varies quite a bit by state, so different states must be enforcing their crime a little differently, or educating their public differently.
If having all those guns actually was protecting Americans, why do they have so many dying from being shot? Oh, it's because they should have even more guns, in the hands of the typical idiot.
We must be doing something different. and BETTER.
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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby tantor » Nov 9th, 2018, 10:02 am

Silverstarqueen wrote:Homicide by gun rate in Canada: .4-.6 per 100,000. In the U.S. overall 3.5 per 100,000. That's seven times the rate. Several states have rates up to 10, 11, 12 per 100,000. That's a rate 20 times Canada's rate. Nothing to do with the size of the population. We have different laws, and obviously we must be doing something different with the way we are educating the public. Or is it the air up here? That's a huge difference. The rate also varies quite a bit by state, so different states must be enforcing their crime a little differently, or educating their public differently.
If having all those guns actually was protecting Americans, why do they have so many dying from being shot? Oh, it's because they should have even more guns, in the hands of the typical idiot.
We must be doing something different. and BETTER.


Once again get back to me when we hit 360 million. The stats don't mean a hill of beans when you take the vastness of our country in to account and how far our population is spread out. Put all that 35 million in one city and the stats would show a completely different story. It might surprise you that the US is listed at number 31 in gun homicides in the world and yet number 1 in the most guns owned. Most people don't know that because it's not a good news story. The same with the fact that guns in the US are used to stop 5 times the amount of violent crime then the rate of people killed by guns (a conservative estimate by the CDC), but don't let facts get in the way. Think about that 5 times the rate, but how often do you hear about that? You don't! If you want to kill a bunch of people very quickly, a car traveling at 100mph can mow down 50 in a second.

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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 9th, 2018, 4:18 pm

The U.s. does not have all 360 million in one city, so that's a silly suggestion and has no relevance. The rates I gave were per 100,000, so no reason why the U.s. can't compare to other modern developed countries like Canada, Britain, Japan, etc. These mass shootings are not happening only on large cities, they are all over. If you are arguing they should have five to twenty time the number of gun homicides because they have more guns, then you are arguing that too many guns are an element of the problem. The fact is they have a very very high rate, per 100,000. The only explanation can be their culture which encourages gun violence. So they need to clean up their act and get a grip on the problem.
The more recent mass shooting in the Calif bar was particularly telling, people there who had survived already a mass shooting, and then had to go thru now a second mass shooting. At least one person had survived an earlier mass shooting, but now he's dead, Wow, how unlucky do you have to be? That would be like getting hit twice by lightning. Anyone who claims the U.S. doesn' t have a problem in their gun control is simply sticking their head in the sand. What will it take for anyone to force change? How high does the rate of gun deaths have to be, how many innocent victims would it take?
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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby Glacier » Nov 9th, 2018, 4:51 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote:Why can't the U.s. get a grip on all the people shooting each other?

The same reason Canada doesn't. Or why we don't get a grip on the fentanyl epidemic. You do realize that it's impossible to stop people from killing each other with guns or drugs short of locking them up in prison, right?
“Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die”

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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 9th, 2018, 6:54 pm

No country is perfect in this respect, but some countries have managed to make a difference in their rate. If the U.s. could make some changes that even cut their rate of gun homicides, say in half, wouldn't that be worth while?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 16301.html
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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby Jflem1983 » Nov 9th, 2018, 8:53 pm

Support the NRA. Protect your rights. Give money to gun lobbies. Do everything you can to keep your rights
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"

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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby tantor » Nov 10th, 2018, 12:10 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote:No country is perfect in this respect, but some countries have managed to make a difference in their rate. If the U.s. could make some changes that even cut their rate of gun homicides, say in half, wouldn't that be worth while?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 16301.html


Fact: In Canada around 1920, before there was any form of gun control, their homicide rate was 7% of the U.S rate. By 1986, and after significant gun control legislation, Canada’s homicide rate was 35% of the U.S. rate – a significant increase. 10 In 2003, Canada had a violent crime rate more than double that of the U.S. (963 vs. 475 per 100,000).
Fact: Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest overall crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United States (2034 vs. 446 per 100,000 population). 18
I feel your frustration with the mass shootings but these kind of events will continue irregardless of any laws. They are illegal acts so laws are not followed and you will never be able to get guns off the streets period. Law abiding gun owners are not the ones running around shooting people.

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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby Loki2u » Nov 10th, 2018, 1:22 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:Support the NRA. Protect your rights. Give money to gun lobbies. Do everything you can to keep your rights


Why?
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -Harlan Ellison-
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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby Jflem1983 » Nov 10th, 2018, 1:58 pm

Loki2u wrote:
Jflem1983 wrote:Support the NRA. Protect your rights. Give money to gun lobbies. Do everything you can to keep your rights


Why?




Or dont. Let the crooks all be armed. U can be a target. Matters not to me
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"

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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby GordonH » Nov 10th, 2018, 2:08 pm

I've been walking on this planet for almost 60 years, never once I've I been robbed or even threatened. Traveled numerous US & Canadian cities.
It curious how some people attract touble like bees to sweet flowers, others don't.
When you have to start compromising yourself and your morals for the people around you, it’s probably time to change the people around you. John Spence

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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby Loki2u » Nov 10th, 2018, 2:43 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:
Or dont. Let the crooks all be armed. U can be a target. Matters not to me


Ok.
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Re: "Guns don't kill people"

Postby JLives » Nov 10th, 2018, 4:11 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:Support the NRA. Protect your rights. Give money to gun lobbies. Do everything you can to keep your rights


Stop being afraid. Fund social and mental health programs. Love your neighbours. Remember we are the government, by the people and for the people. And again, stop being afraid.
"Every dollar you spend is a vote for what you believe in."
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good."

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