Canada commits genocide?

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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby techrtr » Jun 11th, 2019, 7:59 am

I think it's total and ridiculous misuse of the word. First nations cultures were doomed the second the first Europeans set foot on North America. Sad, but that's just the way it is when a technologically advanced culture bumps into one that can't defend itself. It happened all over the globe during the exploration mad 1500's. European countries needed new territories and resources and they were prepared to take them by force. That's the way it always has been.

On this whole "genocide" issue, the blame is being put squarely on the govt and institutions like the RCMP. However, I'd like to see some stats on who actually was responsible for the majority of the crimes against first nations women - could it be members of their own community? Of course, the govt will still be blamed for creating an environment of violence and abuse and not doing more to prevent it.

There's a mad rush to assign blame. Admit that mistakes were made, but the fact is, you can't go back and change history. Payouts and pulling down monuments won't change anything. Learn from the past, carry on towards a better future (except that we're all going to die from the effects of climate change).

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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby Lady tehMa » Jun 11th, 2019, 8:09 am

Okay, I am currently wading through the mess of words that is this report.

The foreword is 99 pages long. :200:

Chapter One is "Centring Relationships to End Violence ".
Throughout the entirety of this chapter, they don't mention the ethnicity of the offenders. You'd think this would have a bearing on it - my original thought is "who is at fault and how do we fix it?" Instead, there is a lot of talk about how the women in abusive relationships don't get the government support they need to leave abusing relationships or how they don't get the services for addiction counseling etc. when they need it (but it seems to me that this would apply to all women, not just indigenous?). Not a word about who the perpetrators of violence are. Why do you think that is? :135:
PLEASE use spellcheck. If that is too hard, consider installing the Grammarly (free!) app that will not only spellcheck for you (AND offer corrections!) but also make sure that your sentences are grammatically correct.

You're welcome.
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby kgcayenne » Jun 11th, 2019, 8:42 am

I’m going to be brazen here: I believe the indigenous communities have their own ‘1%’ that withhold benefits from their own communities/tribes to advance themselves. They’re HUMANS capable of the same things as colonial oppressors. Why isn’t anyone talking about THAT?
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby seewood » Jun 11th, 2019, 8:43 am

techrtr wrote:On this whole "genocide" issue, the blame is being put squarely on the govt and institutions like the RCMP. However, I'd like to see some stats on who actually was responsible for the majority of the crimes against first nations women - could it be members of their own community? Of course, the govt will still be blamed for creating an environment of violence and abuse and not doing more to prevent it.


Posted in another thread but again : https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as ... -1.3028738

I'm sure there may well be contravening reports that will say other, but for many this is not the information they want to hear.
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby Hassel99 » Jun 11th, 2019, 12:54 pm

kgcayenne wrote:I’m going to be brazen here: I believe the indigenous communities have their own ‘1%’ that withhold benefits from their own communities/tribes to advance themselves. They’re HUMANS capable of the same things as colonial oppressors. Why isn’t anyone talking about THAT?



I would imagine some proof would fuel the discussion more so than “I believe”
Any facts at your disposal to back up your belief and facilitate further discussion?
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby kgcayenne » Jun 11th, 2019, 1:16 pm

Top three search results

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/po ... e17785008/
Saskatchewan's Black Lake Band was found by auditors to have spent $403,651 – or 49 per cent of all audited spending – in ways that were "not in compliance" with rules for federal transfers. Auditors said they couldn't find any documents about council meetings or records of decisions and no evidence the leaders regularly reviewed the community's finances.


https://o.canada.com/news/national/atta ... s-for-band
The latest audit of the Attawapiskat First Nation, which covers about 80 per cent of the more than $104 million funneled to Attawapiskat since 2005, included numerous entries in band council books such as a May 2, 2011 donation of $10,000 and more than $1.1 million in August 2009 to buy “buildings” with no supporting documentation. There was also a $2.3 million expenses payment to an unknown vendor on March 31, 2008 with incomplete documentation to explain how or why the money was spent.
...
The release of the audit, which the department said was not politically motivated, forced Spence to answer uncomfortable questions about the spending in her community, which was thrust into the national spotlight in late 2011 over revelations of substandard housing conditions for more than a dozen families.

The band council was also warned repeatedly about the housing situation on the reserve, with Health Canada inspections going back to 2010 showing mould and inadequate housing for several families in the remote community north of Timmins, Ont. A Health Canada official noted the band had done a “relatively poor job” addressing recommendations from health inspectors.

“Case in point — families are still living in ‘condemned’ homes years after the fact. Whether that’s because of funding or other considerations, I can’t really say,” reads a Nov. 30, 2011 Health Canada email, released to Postmedia News.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton ... -1.3886587
”The Indian Act system just protects the chief and council," added McCarthy, who has a management degree in First Nations governance.

In September, a CBC Edmonton investigation revealed an audit had identified $2.1 million in "unexplained payments" to a former chief and some staff at Alexander First Nation, which has a reserve northwest of Edmonton.

Since then, band members from eight communities across Canada have contacted CBC Edmonton with similar complaints about financial irregularities involving band leaders.
...
"Under the Indian Act there is no recourse for band membership to challenge their chief and councils," she said. "And the system where we file grievances and allegations to INAC [Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada] — it doesn't really go anywhere."
"without knowledge, he multiplies mere words."
Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your kids.

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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby Glacier » Jun 11th, 2019, 2:16 pm

The problem is that we are dealing with Critical Race Theory that posits:

All problems with First Nations can be attributed to white supremacy. If a Native band or group is irresponsible, corrupt, or abusive, it is because of past wrongs by white people. Any effort by white people to make amends for the past is a sign of unconscious racism; refusing to make amends is a sign of overt racism. If all white people, 100%, fought "white supremacy" to the demanded satisfaction of critical race Theorists, critical race Theory would claim that's also white supremacy.
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby Brass Monkey » Jun 11th, 2019, 2:34 pm

Glacier wrote:The problem is that we are dealing with Critical Race Theory that posits:

All problems with First Nations can be attributed to white supremacy. If a Native band or group is irresponsible, corrupt, or abusive, it is because of past wrongs by white people. Any effort by white people to make amends for the past is a sign of unconscious racism; refusing to make amends is a sign of overt racism. If all white people, 100%, fought "white supremacy" to the demanded satisfaction of critical race Theorists, critical race Theory would claim that's also white supremacy.



Well there really is only 1 reason that natives went from being nomadic, earth-worshipping, community oriented beings for 15,000 years to being english speaking, materialistic, capitalist consumers in a matter of 1 century.
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jun 11th, 2019, 3:13 pm

techrtr wrote:I think it's total and ridiculous misuse of the word. First nations cultures were doomed the second the first Europeans set foot on North America. Sad, but that's just the way it is when a technologically advanced culture bumps into one that can't defend itself. It happened all over the globe during the exploration mad 1500's. European countries needed new territories and resources and they were prepared to take them by force. That's the way it always has been.
.


I was in the Louvre recently. You can see history going back thousands of years. There was a really good exhibit on the Hittites. In 1600 BC it was hip and cool to be a Hittite. The world was your oyster. Then other more technologically advanced civilizations started attacking them, and by 1200 BC they were toast, absorbed by more advanced civilizations. The Hittites had the disadvantage of being in Asia. If they had been in North America, they'd probably still be carving giant statues of lions and drinking copious amounts of wine while reading their cuneiform tablets when Christopher Columbus showed up, and started killing them. It really comes down to geography.
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby techrtr » Jun 11th, 2019, 4:28 pm

Hassel99 wrote:
kgcayenne wrote:I’m going to be brazen here: I believe the indigenous communities have their own ‘1%’ that withhold benefits from their own communities/tribes to advance themselves. They’re HUMANS capable of the same things as colonial oppressors. Why isn’t anyone talking about THAT?



I would imagine some proof would fuel the discussion more so than “I believe”
Any facts at your disposal to back up your belief and facilitate further discussion?


No shortage of proof - do a little research on your own.
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby jimmy4321 » Jun 11th, 2019, 4:35 pm

kgcayenne wrote:Top three search results

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/po ... e17785008/
Saskatchewan's Black Lake Band was found by auditors to have spent $403,651 – or 49 per cent of all audited spending – in ways that were "not in compliance" with rules for federal transfers. Auditors said they couldn't find any documents about council meetings or records of decisions and no evidence the leaders regularly reviewed the community's finances.


https://o.canada.com/news/national/atta ... s-for-band
The latest audit of the Attawapiskat First Nation, which covers about 80 per cent of the more than $104 million funneled to Attawapiskat since 2005, included numerous entries in band council books such as a May 2, 2011 donation of $10,000 and more than $1.1 million in August 2009 to buy “buildings” with no supporting documentation. There was also a $2.3 million expenses payment to an unknown vendor on March 31, 2008 with incomplete documentation to explain how or why the money was spent.
...
The release of the audit, which the department said was not politically motivated, forced Spence to answer uncomfortable questions about the spending in her community, which was thrust into the national spotlight in late 2011 over revelations of substandard housing conditions for more than a dozen families.

The band council was also warned repeatedly about the housing situation on the reserve, with Health Canada inspections going back to 2010 showing mould and inadequate housing for several families in the remote community north of Timmins, Ont. A Health Canada official noted the band had done a “relatively poor job” addressing recommendations from health inspectors.

“Case in point — families are still living in ‘condemned’ homes years after the fact. Whether that’s because of funding or other considerations, I can’t really say,” reads a Nov. 30, 2011 Health Canada email, released to Postmedia News.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton ... -1.3886587
”The Indian Act system just protects the chief and council," added McCarthy, who has a management degree in First Nations governance.

In September, a CBC Edmonton investigation revealed an audit had identified $2.1 million in "unexplained payments" to a former chief and some staff at Alexander First Nation, which has a reserve northwest of Edmonton.

Since then, band members from eight communities across Canada have contacted CBC Edmonton with similar complaints about financial irregularities involving band leaders.
...
"Under the Indian Act there is no recourse for band membership to challenge their chief and councils," she said. "And the system where we file grievances and allegations to INAC [Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada] — it doesn't really go anywhere."



I really don't care about how they treat their own, it doesn't justify how we treat them.
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby OKkayak » Jun 11th, 2019, 4:38 pm

jimmy4321 wrote:I really don't care about how they their own,

You should.
jimmy4321 wrote: it doesn't justify how we treat them.

No, it doesn't. Neither does how they treat their own become justified because how others may or may not treat them.
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby jimmy4321 » Jun 11th, 2019, 4:46 pm

I've only been through a couple reservations and I've had it pointed out to who was the cheif , who was the uncle, daughter and son etc. And yes those homes had ALL the toys in the yard. Monster 5th wheel with matching diesel trucks 4 wheelers, you name it.
The rest of the place was kinda dumpy, some better than others.
I just think we give them the money and let them fight among themselves.
They see themselves as individual nations/governments and we recognize them as such.
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby kgcayenne » Jun 11th, 2019, 4:48 pm

While your mind (OK Kayak) leans towards a justification angle, I assure you it is not intended as such. Problems are complex as they’ve spanned so many generations. They put forth a study and then presented it with a bright red polarizing bow of ‘genocide’ with some huge implications for millions of people who weren’t alive at the time.
"without knowledge, he multiplies mere words."
Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your kids.
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Re: Canada commits genocide?

Postby jimmy4321 » Jun 11th, 2019, 4:54 pm

kgcayenne wrote:While your mind leans towards a justification angle, I assure you it is not intended as such. Problems are complex as they’ve spanned so many generations. They put forth a study and then presented it with a bright red polarizing bow of ‘genocide’ with some huge implications for millions of people who weren’t alive at the time.



Ok, but the question that nobody can agree on is Genocide and while what you posted is true this tread will quickly derail where everyone will start trashing natives for how they decide to distribute the money.

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