"Unplanned" Movie

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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby flamingfingers » Aug 28th, 2019, 8:09 pm

^^Please fix your quotes so it does not appear that I have spoken the words of twoshoes please, thanks.
Overpopulation threatens all life on earth.

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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby two_shoes1mit » Aug 28th, 2019, 8:13 pm

As I understand it, this is about the movie "Unplanned."

I don't think you saw it, yet you post like your butts on fire.

This thread has moved too far away from the movie, why not start
a thread on what it is your debating?

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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby Silverstarqueen » Aug 28th, 2019, 9:10 pm

Well I wasn't debating my butt, last time I checked it was not on fire.
You haven't said much about the movie lately, so difficult to comment on it.
It is a movie about abortion, and the discussion has been on various aspects of that for a few days now.
It's a bit difficult to talk about a movie about abortion without talking about abortion.
And other movies about abortion were also mentioned.

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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby Glacier » Aug 29th, 2019, 8:19 am

Firstly, I publicly apologize to FF and others who read my harmful and crass posted yesterday. I thought I was being funny laying in bed with high fever yesterday, but that's no excuse -- it was not funny at all, just mean and hurtful comments toward the kind and compassionate flamingfingers.

Back on topic, the link between religion and abortion views is complicated. Religion is a good motivator for getting people to stand up for justice (real or perceived). This is how slavery was abolished.

Just as the Bible doesn't say much about slavery or abortion, the bible is often used to oppose both.

Don't get me wrong, I am not making a moral equivalent, only that religion is used for both, just as it was with prohibition (which history shows us was clearly is a mistake).

Religion is a tool that can be used for good or bad depending on how it is channelled.

From what I have seen, most of the arguments against abortion are not religious, but there is some correlation between being religious and being against abortion. Certainly the "unplanned" movie was definitely told from a religious perspective (I believe the lady became Catholic).

It is really interesting how the die hard abortion protesters are so often Catholic. I don't know enough about theological differences to tell you why this is, but it's probably related to how Catholic teaching seems to be against all forms of birth control including condoms. At least that's what I learned from Monty Python.
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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby Silverstarqueen » Aug 29th, 2019, 3:31 pm

The Catholic church has no problem with natural forms of family planning (such as the so called "rhythm method", which actually works not too badly if you know what you are doing. Also the Catholic church is not against the use of condoms in some situations.
Also do not confuse the Catholic church's position on these issues with that of Catholics themselves, since many are quite fine with using birth control, and like anyone else might prefer one method over another.
Also those providing abortions have found just about as many Catholics as you would expect (given the percent of the population) turning up to access abortion services. I don't know if they have ever polled whether "pro-lifers" were also turning up, but as mentioned before it's highly unlikely someone would admit to it if asked.
And the bible does specifically deal with an example of someone causing abortion,if against the parents wishes, and what should be the penalty, which is nothing like the penalty for murder. If it had some great prohibition against abortion that was with the woman's consent, anything like the level of murder, I'm pretty sure it would say so. In fact somewhere in the bible is a recipe for an abortificant, and discussed under which conditions it can be used (such as when a woman has extra-marital affair).
Nowhere does it claim that a fetus is equivalent to a born alive human being. But perhaps someone could correct me if I am wrong, with references to biblical quotes.
Just for clarification, since this has nothing to do with the movie.
And, there are many places in the bible where slavery is mentioned in the old and new testament, discussed in depth, no blanket condemnation of it.So saying the bible doesn't say much about it , is false.

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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby two_shoes1mit » Aug 29th, 2019, 4:42 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote:The Catholic church has no problem with natural forms of family planning (such as the so called "rhythm method", which actually works not too badly if you know what you are doing. Also the Catholic church is not against the use of condoms in some situations.
Also do not confuse the Catholic church's position on these issues with that of Catholics themselves, since many are quite fine with using birth control, and like anyone else might prefer one method over another.
Also those providing abortions have found just about as many Catholics as you would expect (given the percent of the population) turning up to access abortion services. I don't know if they have ever polled whether "pro-lifers" were also turning up, but as mentioned before it's highly unlikely someone would admit to it if asked.
And the bible does specifically deal with an example of someone causing abortion,if against the parents wishes, and what should be the penalty, which is nothing like the penalty for murder. If it had some great prohibition against abortion that was with the woman's consent, anything like the level of murder, I'm pretty sure it would say so. In fact somewhere in the bible is a recipe for an abortificant, and discussed under which conditions it can be used (such as when a woman has extra-marital affair).
Nowhere does it claim that a fetus is equivalent to a born alive human being. But perhaps someone could correct me if I am wrong, with references to biblical quotes.
Just for clarification, since this has nothing to do with the movie.
And, there are many places in the bible where slavery is mentioned in the old and new testament, discussed in depth, no blanket condemnation of it.So saying the bible doesn't say much about it , is false.


Could you please give specific reference in the Bible where is says many of the issues you are quoting?

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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby Silverstarqueen » Aug 29th, 2019, 5:33 pm

Exodus 21:22-24 "
King James 2000 Bible
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no mischief follows: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby flamingfingers » Aug 29th, 2019, 7:11 pm

The Bible also seems to be not uncomfortable with the concept of infanticide:

Exodus 1:16
Verse Concepts
and he said, "When you are helping the Hebrew women to give birth and see them upon the birthstool, if it is a son, then you shall put him to death; but if it is a daughter, then she shall live."


Matthew 2:16
Verse Concepts
Then when Herod saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and all its vicinity, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the magi.


Psalm 137:9
Verse Concepts
How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.


Isaiah 13:18
Verse Concepts
And their bows will mow down the young men, They will not even have compassion on the fruit of the womb, Nor will their eye pity children.


It seems to me that the Bible (written by many men) have been bent and twisted to a remarkable degree to suit the ideological perceptions of many men again.

Perhaps more compassion and understanding could be directed to WOMEN who find themselves trapped by an unwanted pregnancy.
Overpopulation threatens all life on earth.

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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby Glacier » Sep 2nd, 2019, 1:48 pm

If I recall correctly SilverStarQueen is a Catholic. It makes sense that she feels that abortion is mostly a religious question. She feels that she should be able to easily refute Catholics on the other side of the abortion to debate with theological arguments.

If we take the previous few posts at face value in then we can assume that the pro-choice arguments are stronger using the Bible. In terms of secular arguments, I would saying that the pro-life side has stronger arguments.
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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby Silverstarqueen » Sep 2nd, 2019, 1:58 pm

Glacier wrote:If I recall correctly SilverStarQueen is a Catholic. It makes sense that she feels that abortion is mostly a religious question. She feels that she should be able to easily refute Catholics on the other side of the abortion to debate with theological arguments.

If we take the previous few posts at face value in then we can assume that the pro-choice arguments are stronger using the Bible. In terms of secular arguments, I would saying that the pro-life side has stronger arguments.


You don't recall correctly. AND I did not say that I felt abortion is mostly a religious question. I am not trying to refute either side of the abortion debate with theological arguments.
Perhaps you should stick with your own views, or even someone else's views, and stop trying to misrepresent mine.
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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby flamingfingers » Sep 2nd, 2019, 2:00 pm

In terms of secular arguments, I would saying that the pro-life side has stronger arguments.


Only if you are prepared to exclude from the equation the WOMAN who has fallen pregnant with an unplanned, UNWANTED pregnancy.
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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby two_shoes1mit » Sep 2nd, 2019, 2:09 pm

removed
Last edited by Catsumi on Sep 2nd, 2019, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby Sparki55 » Sep 5th, 2019, 3:21 pm

https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/265140/Unborn-child-murdered

I don't have an opinion on the sentencing other than I am glad he will see lots of jail time.

This does spark my interest in what other people think of that a stabbing and ultimately a death of an unborn child from the stabbing has resulted in a second degree murder charge. Could this not create some unwanted fuel for supporters of the unplanned movie?
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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby flamingfingers » Sep 5th, 2019, 7:15 pm

Could this not create some unwanted fuel for supporters of the unplanned movie?


I'm not sure how. The woman obviously did not wish to have the child "aborted" as she carried the pregnancy to 36 weeks. She apparently wished to give birth to the baby and at 36 weeks the fetus was viable - he actually breathed and had a heartbeat after emergency C-section. Neonatal deaths do occur; however, this neonatal death was found to be due to the actions of the accused.
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Re: "Unplanned" Movie

Postby Silverstarqueen » Sep 5th, 2019, 8:41 pm

Sparki55 wrote:https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/265140/Unborn-child-murdered

I don't have an opinion on the sentencing other than I am glad he will see lots of jail time.

This does spark my interest in what other people think of that a stabbing and ultimately a death of an unborn child from the stabbing has resulted in a second degree murder charge. Could this not create some unwanted fuel for supporters of the unplanned movie?


There was not a "death of an unborn child". The baby was born alive, and then died. Father was charged because he caused that death. Has nothing to do with abortion as it is normally carried out. The movie is about "Unplanned" (meaning I suppose unwanted) pregnancies, which this one was not.
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