Smith Creek mud bog

[dayton]

You talk about the land being "so beautiful" and that you "love" it so much but for some reason you feel you have a right to tear it up or damage it strictly for your own personal and selfish pleasure. What about the rest of the people out there who love the beauty of the land exactly the way mother nature made it?
Motorsports are indeed great fun and often wonderful family bonding experiences but they should be done at privately owned specifically designed venues. Drag racing is, as it should be, illegal on the public streets as are other forms of "street racing" yet motorsports exactly like these attract multi-millions of participants and fans to private venues around the world every year. Motocross is another great family motorsport but it too is done at designated tracks not in public parks. If you and your friends or family want to mud bog or rip around on your quads then go ahead and do so but do it on property you own or other private property which you have permission to use. Do what ever you want on your own land but you have no right to damage or destroy what mother nature gave all of us on crown land and you most definitely have absolutely no right what so ever to even enter someone else's private property without permission let alone damage it in any way.
Take your own advise and put yourself in the other guys position, like that of the private property owner who worked so hard to pay for his piece of land or the family out to enjoy a day hike in the beauty and serenity of our crown woodlands. Then ask yourself if what you are doing isn't just plain selfishness and wanton destruction of what so many others will now never have the opportunity to enjoy?


see thats all fine and dandy for people who are rich or people who have connectionsin this town but what about a family that just moved from across canada and knows no one but wants to enjoy fun time with the family close to home due to lack of fund's from moving, or young kids that live close to the area and dont have trucks or any way to get up to the hills. Not trying to put words in your mouth but are you saying those people dont have the right to enjoy the area they live around and wha about the innocent people who just putt up and down the hill to see mother nature or take pictures of it and falling into these stupid traps. i under stand no one wants there grounds ripped up or vandilized or even littered on but if thats how it is show a sign at poppular unlod points and at the start of the dirt road. there are better ways to handle this then b**ch and complain and try to hurt people.plus good job on posting the problem on castanet and not where the problem is

[guxcon]

The one thing we need remember is that we live in a country where we have the right to own land and along with that comes a right to determine what and who we want to give access to (within the law). Other posts on this site bemoan the right of building inspectors gaining access to our homes yet on the same site we post comments that we should be able to have access to play where and when we wish.
The problem with allowing access for public activities is liability. Sad to say that in our litigation happy society owners are reluctant to allow any type of public access for the very reason of self preservation.
I would not bring my quad, snowmobile, dirt bike, 4x4, or mountain bike and arbitrarily ride on someones front lawn. I would not walk through your front door with mud covered boots and plop down on the coach for a spell. In the same manner the owners of the parcels in Smith Creek should receive the same consideration.
To those who bemoan the lack of locations to partake in such activities, get together, raise the funds, buy some land, pay the insurance and bog away to your hearts content.

[cv23]

To those who bemoan the lack of locations to partake in such activities, get together, raise the funds, buy some land, pay the insurance and bog away to your hearts content.

[Lazarus]

If you are interested in finding out whether a piece of property is private or not this is a very useful tool:

http://www.rdcogis.com/GIS_App/RDCO_GIS_App.html

According to the information provided there ALL of the property along upper Smith Creek Rd and in the immediately surrounding area is PRIVATE PROPERTY. So to the OP and anyone else 'mud bogging' up there YOU ARE TRESPASSING ON PRIVATELY-OWNED LAND. There is no debate about it, it is clearly indicated in easy-to-access publicly-available records that any propertied along upper Smith Creek Rd are not 'public' or 'Crown' lands and thus if you are up there without the owner's explicit permission you are (fence or no fence, signs or no signs) trespassing and thus engaging in criminal behaviour. Just as much as I would be if I decided to take my truck to your house and start doing doughnuts on your front lawn. But, of course, you wouldn't mind because I was just having fun right?

[Poindexter]

Soooooo .... have we got anything definite yet about whether this is public land or private land?

All the lands adjacent to Smith Creek Road (above and below) are held privately. The portion of Smith Creek Road from Copperridge up to just above Doucette is actually not a Registered Road it is only a Gazetted Rd meaning that it is owned by the landowner, was never registered as a public road, and because it has been used by the public for a specified period of time it cannot be blocked off. It can be maintained by the District but not upgraded. The large portion above Doucette would have been developed by now except for the Gazetted road issue. Without proper access (upgrade of Smith Creek Road) the development cannot be approved.

Interesting, does this mean developement is unlikely in the future or just expensive? My concern is if the area is determined a forest fire hazard or an eyesore the city may grease the wheels for development.

[bigtdawg]

Soooooo .... have we got anything definite yet about whether this is public land or private land?

All the lands adjacent to Smith Creek Road (above and below) are held privately. The portion of Smith Creek Road from Copperridge up to just above Doucette is actually not a Registered Road it is only a Gazetted Rd meaning that it is owned by the landowner, was never registered as a public road, and because it has been used by the public for a specified period of time it cannot be blocked off. It can be maintained by the District but not upgraded. The large portion above Doucette would have been developed by now except for the Gazetted road issue. Without proper access (upgrade of Smith Creek Road) the development cannot be approved.

According to the information provided there ALL of the property along upper Smith Creek Rd and in the immediately surrounding area is PRIVATE PROPERTY. So to the OP and anyone else 'mud bogging' up there YOU ARE TRESPASSING ON PRIVATELY-OWNED LAND. There is no debate about it, it is clearly indicated in easy-to-access publicly-available records that any propertied along upper Smith Creek Rd are not 'public' or 'Crown' lands and thus if you are up there without the owner's explicit permission you are (fence or no fence, signs or no signs) trespassing and thus engaging in criminal behaviour. Just as much as I would be if I decided to take my truck to your house and start doing doughnuts on your front lawn. But, of course, you wouldn't mind because I was just having fun right?

Ok, if the land around Smith Creek Road is private, but the land farther up is crown land (where there is a mountain bike, dirt bike and hiking trails), how is anybody able to get to the public land without tresspassing on private property? You can't help but but break the law if you want to get to the proper area to ride.

Loed, I'm glad that people like you mostly talk a big game about taking drastic action, but sadly are too lazy too get up and actually do something. Maybe you think that posting on here will give someone else the idea to decap a few bikers, who are just wanting to get to an area where they won't bother anybody.

[Fancy]

You can't help but but break the law if you want to get to the proper area to ride.

It's obviously not a proper area if there's no legitimate access.

[bigtdawg]

You can't help but but break the law if you want to get to the proper area to ride.

It's obviously not a proper area if there's no legitimate access.

So even people taking their dogs for a walk in the area are criminals? Seems sort of watseful to have a nice trail system in town and not be able to use it because there is no way to get there, legally.

[Relentless]

Ok, if the land around Smith Creek Road is private, but the land farther up is crown land (where there is a mountain bike, dirt bike and hiking trails), how is anybody able to get to the public land without tresspassing on private property? You can't help but but break the law if you want to get to the proper area to ride.

Isn't there another way in to that area?
Also, maybe it's only convenient to go in through private land because it's too far to get to other trails that lead into that trail system.
The problem of private land and crown land being adjoined up in the mountains is a problem throughout this whole valley.
The right thing to do is "not tresspass" and find another way in, then say to yourself, thats wasn't so bad after all.

[Relentless]

Can someone please point out where the concerned area is.
Where in the Google pic is this area?

[guxcon]

Interesting, does this mean developement is unlikely in the future or just expensive? My concern is if the area is determined a forest fire hazard or an eyesore the city may grease the wheels for development.

Two things are holding up development. 1) the economy 2) the owner of the parcel where Smith Creek road does the switchback between Copper Ridge and Dixie.
That part of Smith Creek road does not appear on any District Engineering maps because it technically does not exist. There were a number of alternate access routes proposed but none that MOT would approve. The current switchback does not meet MOT requirements for the amount of traffic a new subdivision would produce.
There may have been some recent developments in the situation but in 2005 and 2006 a local group tried unsuccessfully to negotiate with the owner of the switchback to allow a proper road to be built and registered. They wound up selling the parcel to a Vancouver development group. I did hear of some subsequent plans but there are no current development applications with DWK for that area.

[MGM inc]

here is the area of question... (concern area).

[Relentless]

So, this is the Mud Bog area?

Click for Larger image

[cv23]

Ok, if the land around Smith Creek Road is private, but the land farther up is crown land (where there is a mountain bike, dirt bike and hiking trails), how is anybody able to get to the public land without tresspassing on private property? You can't help but but break the law if you want to get to the proper area to ride.

I guess the simple idea of contacting the private property owner/owners and asking permission to cross their land is beyond you?

[bigtdawg]

So, this is the Mud Bog area?

Smith Creek Mudbog area.jpg

yes that is area where the logs were felled.