Youth homelessness - just go home!

[james-d]

that was my suggestion, because it worked for a lot of years to keep undesirables off our streets. What is your solution or are you just a critic of someone eles ideas. Worked before, would work now.

[TazzTheCat]

Under the old vagrancy laws they would only be in jail a few hours and sent on their way

And where would they go.....they are homeless....

[james-d]

you know, maybe Iam having trouble with a couple of you folks understanding my posts on the homeless and begger issues,. The people of Kelowna have made it quite clear they DO NOT like seeing these people on our streets, Do you understand that part??
So having made that known to many of us, I have what I believe to be the solution to this problem, You cannot solve the homelessness issue, We couldn't 75 years ago , 50 years ago, 30 years ago ,20 years ago, 10 years ago, and we can't now, simply because so many of these people chose this life style, . Now, Just so you understand, when people chose this lifestyle they must expect people to be uncomfortable around them. And since they won't leave on their own, (Because the begging on Kelowna streets can be real good ), Then in order to make the people that don't want them there happy, We should send them on their way to a place where they may be welcome, Vagrancy laws would allow us to remove them from our streets without harming them, and a few short hours later ,showing them the highway to where someone else wants them on their streets. Sheesh, Now do you understand.? This is not an issue that can be fixed, maybe for a small percentage, but they are usaully right back on the streets ,where they can get drugs and booze with no rules to follow. GET IT ???

[CorkSoaker]

So you wish to criminalize poverty? Punish the poor for the sake of being poor? There are better solutions to the issues. They have been known for quite sometime but lack any political will; It's pretty sad.

http://www.strategicthoughts.com/record2004/safestreets.html

http://owjn.org/owjn_2009/jasons-test-submenu-page/62

[james-d]

To Corksoaker. Thank you for posting that info in the two threads. Have you noticed how wonderfully efficient it the new changes worked ? Those threads were talking about POOR people in our society, They really do miss the boat. Because poor people here in Canada have a real struggle on their hands. They are fighting to stay alive ,And for the most part try and better their lot in life.This not address the issue of young people choosing to live on the streets, Because they didn't like Dad's rules. Or they have become dependant on drugs or alcohol,But can beg , And keep their needs satisfied on the streets. What I find real amazing is why do they do this where the weather is so nice ? I guess they all migrate here from where the weather is not so nice, Amazing how these poor people can all make it to the west.Sunny Okangan and then Vancouver as the weather cools in the fall.Simply amazing.

[TazzTheCat]

In any case, we are still talking about human beings...

Do I agree with some of these kids and their 'decision' to leave their homes? No way..However, I do believe that there is a ton of lumping all in into one category going on here...And to that I say shame on you.

Each one of these people have a different story, some may be selfish and spoiled (but I doubt it is the majority for the most part), some may have it so bad we cannot even imagine what they have seen or been subject of. So to place them all into one category is demonstrating total ignorance. Let me add this as well, I do not believe that drug and alcohol addiction is not a choice - it is - I also believe that in some cases its a result of unimaginable trauma that one has been part of. I don't think that suggesting bringing some vagrancy law back into affect will solve anything. Clearly it didn't work when it was law, hence the reason its not a law anymore. Just saying.

There is no proof that these kids are migrating from the coast to here......and if I am wrong - prove it.

[kibbs]

That would be nice Kibbs , but there is nowhere for some of these kids to go ,Please tell me where they are to go to learn the basics you speak of,It certainly is not school, that is a total failure and a laughing matter in my view.

That's a good Question . How about we set up a shelter for youth with life skills coaches and counselors. Get them moving in a positive direction and teach them to rely on on themselves. It must be based in reality , real work ,real cooking real cleaning ,proper hygiene health and job hunt education.
They want their freedom ,show them what work needs to be done to keep it.
There is one in place but it is too stringent and only for those with high chance for controlled success.

[tgm929]

Off topic/Trip

[1933-1939]

Do the homeless still get their wellfare checks? Or do they only receive those when they fare well???

[logman]

Does a person not need an address to collect social assistance? I thought an address was required.
Edited to add: to collect welfare ?

[steven lloyd]

Does a person not need an address to collect social assistance?

Even people living on the streets can get 'comfort" money (along with directions to a shelter soup kitchens and food banks.

[steven lloyd]

That's a good Question . How about we set up a shelter for youth with life skills coaches and counselors. Get them moving in a positive direction and teach them to rely on on themselves. It must be based in reality , real work ,real cooking real cleaning ,proper hygiene health and job hunt education. They want their freedom , show them what work needs to be done to keep it.

We used to do that. We did the same thing for chronic adult welfare recipients before the Liberals first came to power. Before working in government I was working as a government contractor developing and delivering programs just as kibbs described to person with multiple barriers to economic participation and self-reliance. We used cognitive-behavioral theories to teach that taking responsibility brought freedom and hope for the future. We taught them how to plan change and we helped support them through their plans. We kept thorough records are were able to show our government funders that even after program costs (including my salary) we were providing government (the tax payers of BC) with immediate savings as people achieved self-reliance and were taken off welfare. Of course these people were now paying taxes instead of using tax money to survive and tax money to pay police to watch and follow them and arrest them and process them through the court system. In all, i suspect we were saving the government big money when you take the money just our program was saving and multiply that by the hundreds of programs that were being delivered province wide.

When Campbell first came to power he tried it a different way. His plan was to take everyone off welfare (because welfare cheating was rampant) and this would motivate them to find work. Some did. Some, without their issues addressed or anywhere to go went back to the streets and if they couldn’t get welfare and couldn’t get a job (dirty, dishevelled people who stink of body order not having a change of clothes don’t do so well in the job search with no marketable skills, no fixed address for a resume, and not the simple ability to talk to a prospective employer in a productive manner. These were just some of the things we helped them to overcome. One day after extensive research by his own party, Campbell finally had to admit welfare fraud was and has never been a significant issue. It happens, but among such a small percentage of recipients we were just punishing people who already had nothing going for them, and without intervention and support would never have anything going for them. Very quietly, Campbell started to provide more people with welfare services again – but he didn’t a big deal made of his turnaround in policy.

james-d suggests we bring back vagrancy laws. Make being broke, being addicted and illiterate and homeless a crime. He suggests it should be a crime because it is a choice. Being broke, being addicted and illiterate and homeless is a choice according to jame-d. He believes that some of us older and wiser posters don’t understand what he’s saying, when in fact, we do understand what he’s saying and recognize he has a great deal to learn on the this very complex subject before minimizing the horrors , struggles and shame (often buried or even denied) of being homeless with no money and no hope.

Like I started with, there were highly successful programs running across the province in the 90’s that were proving tax payers with immediate savings, shown to have an impact on future tax revenue by more people working and the suggestion there would be less associated property crime. A new government came in and made a decision based on ideology instead of research and actual evidence. I’m not suggesting everything the NDP was a great success (hardly), but these programs made a real measurable difference and the Liberals screwed up big for ideological stake.

[CrystalCity]

Honestly, just seeing this thread greatly disappoints me. I had supportive parents, but the reality is that there are so many factors that lead to youth homelessness, simply telling them to "go home" is completely ignorant.

Some were brave enough to leave abusive (as in needlessly beating them or raping them) parents, but did not know what resources were available to support them.

Some were taken from abusive homes by MCFD and placed in foster care homes...some of which just treat them as a meal ticket.

Some may have come from "good" homes but suffer from any assortment health issues and their family could not take care of them...thus off to foster care.

No kid just leaves home because they "don't like the rules". If a kid is so lazy to do chores, they'd be too lazy to get up and leave also.

[kgcayenne]

No kid just leaves home because they "don't like the rules". If a kid is so lazy to do chores, they'd be too lazy to get up and leave also.

I can confirm this...

[Ken7]

Lock them up and make a boot camp.

Once they realize home isn't so bad they will politely ask to go home. The rules there will be much better then the camp.
The root of the problem is some teens have no parental guidance and the others want that life style too.


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