West Kelowna Civic Centre location

[jon peter christoff]

I don't think I'm all over the map on our civic center, I have been very clear, I feel it's too early to spend limited revenue on a civic center,there are other priorities that need attention. You are right DWK's leadership and WFN's leadership are not as close as I and many would wish. Yes they like us have agenda, but doesn't it strike anyone that that agenda is to maximize their development's and that maximization will come with seamless integration with DWK from one end to the other, they too what to benefit from vitalization that is hoped for from both governments.

Yes I have read the OCP. My earlier comment is fact, DWK Westbank Town Center Plan is built on top of the old Regional district Plan developed before we became a municipality. Our community is much different now then it was before, The In depth consultation that is brought up as a defence of the OCP, was done by sincere people who had thoughts, ideas and wishes for what they would like to see in our community. That is all good, of course we need a plan; however at the time of the OCP finalization WFN's development was not at the level it is today and the impacts from that development had not begun to crystalized as they have today and will change even further.

Like we review DCC's annually because of the acknowledgment that things change, I am suggesting our plans need to be adjusted. I have never suggested that we wing-it, (words are very important in communication and I always wonder from some of the comments that people just don't read and comprehend what is written).

Revitalization can come in may different forms, with equally different results. If you have read what I have written you will see that what I'm saying is the revitalization promised from adding to an over built area more of what is either seating vacant or unsold or experiencing a high tenant-turnover rate because of high land and building cost which force up rent to choke commercial businesses is not the way at this point in our history to go.

Saying there will be positive impact outside the area doesn't make it so. If you had actually read what I have written you would see that I'm suggesting improving our aging roads (our ability to move around and generate this desired economic activity is a much more immediate gain).

[nextimeround]

Thanks Jon. I have read (many of) your posts but don't necessarily agree with at least some of your direction. For example, I have a lot of trouble visualizing how adding a route out of Glenrosa will generate more immediate economic activity.

Attempting to revitalize one of the most visible areas of our community in my opinion is a very worthwhile activity and one that I believe will have a positive and long lasting economic impact. In order to do this we need to create a critical mass. Further, as you're very well aware, WFN developments do not drive DWK revenues. So yes we need to be looking at that calamity of box stores in the short term, however we can learn from the many early closings that it's entirely likely these developments will continue to be in flux for many years to come. Until DWK and WFN work together on a joint community plan that risk will remain high.

What I can say without a question is that the value of my home has dropped nearly $100K in the 7 years that I've owned it. Despite the WFN development or the bridge. There's no economic viability at present, even though Kelowna and Penticton are attracting global high tech business.

So whoever is elected come November better break through the current "all for one - one for all" crap that currently permeates our council.

[jon peter christoff]

nextimeround: Thank you for the interest in reading my posts. You are correct, the new civic center will have positive, long term affect, and I believe that any civic center enhances the identity of the municipality. But there is a "but" in there, at least for me.

My issue is at this stage of our municipal life, (7 years old) and in light of what you correctly pointed out WFN over building and lack of any coordination between DWK and WFN. The economic result of that overbuilding, vacancies, high turnover rate, grumblings I hear even today over expensive rent paid by local merchants who have to deal with anaemic (global) economic activity and the fact that the internet has altered what many of us have as a mind's-picture of bricks and mortar urban-setting. This will (I believe) mute the claimed positive economic benefit from the civic center, forcing upon the municipality a longer time/benefit curve, before there is real-honest-to-god economic revitalization, and not just (as I believe) the right to say -"look we have a new pretty new civic building" therefore -"presto-economic revitalization".

If we were at a different stage of life, for example, say -100 years old from the time of our incorporation and had by then developed urban structure that say needed to be spruced-up, this is different then where we are now, -a very young municipality trying to build very much from scratch a unban identity with limited funds.

My point about civic center and roads is at this stage where would the money be better spent. Mt belief is on needed infrastructure first or God-forbid save the money, build reserves with this new available $$$ for a few years keep improving infrastructure and see how the economic environment will change.

But this bus has already left the station, we have incurred significant costs already on this project, so it's a different animal now then it was when the idea first came up. Doug said it was at the time a unanimous vote, I have to tell anyone who will listen if I was on council at that time I would have voted against it on the grounds it was too early for that, but as I said if DWK gets to vote and decides in favour I will work to help see the deal is done properly.

[01066]

And this so-called 'West Kelowna' has money to burn on facilities like a civic center? A 'town', in reality, just a collection a uS corporate big-box stores, tire shops, automated carwashes, where the principle occupation\activity is driving around looking for new ways to 'consume' poorly made imported corporate trash. Doesnt this 'town', which produces nothing, have bigger priorities? Like providing water, fixing crumbling roads, you know...things like that? I wasnt aware that 'West Kelowna' was such self sustaining, economic powerhouse that could afford all these gold plated vanity items on the local councils wish list......

[mystica]

That's a bit of "Hit the nail on the head" talking there!
Being so obvious is novel!

The transition funds the new municipality got from the Province ended and there is plenty of work that needs to be done in West Kelowna. Tax income is limited as our income derives mainly from residential taxes. Most of the big stores and businesses are not located in West Kelowna so their taxes are not paid to West Kelowna (Obviously).

Remember the start of the Royal Le Page Place campaign? The arena was originally estimated to cost $5.1 million when taxpayers agreed in a referendum to borrow $3.2 million to fund it.

Councilor David Knowles was still a Regional Director at the time.His push for a "yes" vote for borrowing the money to build the arena was that "It won't cost the taxpayers an extra penny" Well he was wrong! And like Topsy, the bill just grew and grew and the final price was $14.4 million!

Lets go back to the City Hall. The estimated cost of $8.9 million is just a starting price. How much would it eventually end up costing us? Approx $25 million perhaps...... That's a lot of money!

Until the municipality has finished doing the necessary work about time, why not put some money into savings and then build this City Hall when we can afford to.

The finance 101 I was taught about credit cards applies."Only use them when you can afford to pay them off monthly - or you will end up over your head in debt" Perhaps I am wrong?

I believe this council will leave behind a far better testament to their characters if they don't blow our money and leave us with a huge debt for a monument we don't need.

[jon peter christoff]

I'm glad someone brought up the arena. The promises made by proponents at that time turned out to be wrong. I remember half way through the construction, building contractors came back to the arena committee and demanded more $$$ to finish because as they claimed unexpected cost increases. The result was we upon incorporation we inherited a $11 million dollar debt on day-one of our life as a municipality.

The same type of arguments promising economic vitalization from the new arena. are used to promote the new civic center.

Council's original decision to place the civic hall at the arena, was to try and get better value from a municipal asset that was not paying for itself. Now It looks like we are repeating history with the planned civic center.

"Those who forget our history are destined to repeat it."

[juliatrops]

And this so-called 'West Kelowna' has money to burn on facilities like a civic center? A 'town', in reality, just a collection a uS corporate big-box stores, tire shops, automated carwashes, where the principle occupation\activity is driving around looking for new ways to 'consume' poorly made imported corporate trash. Doesnt this 'town', which produces nothing, have bigger priorities? Like providing water, fixing crumbling roads, you know...things like that? I wasnt aware that 'West Kelowna' was such self sustaining, economic powerhouse that could afford all these gold plated vanity items on the local councils wish list......

I agree. I don't think we need a city hall. We don't have the funds. Too many other things are needed for the general populace than a pretty building for staff. What we have right now at Mt B is just fine and works and is good enough for us until we get some serious stuff taken care of.

I also agree with this:

I believe this council will leave behind a far better testament to their characters if they don't blow our money and leave us with a huge debt for a monument we don't need.

Postering. That's how I see that new city hall building.