West Kelowna Civic Centre location

[jon peter christoff]

Symbonite: "We're almost as big as Penticton and they have a City hall"

We are only six years old as a municipality, and running operating deficits every year, we have to borrow more to pay for this city hall, preliminary estimates put at $8 million, but if you remember the arena it started out at $3 million and ended up at $12 million with some stuff needed to be done after it was opened.

Keeping up with the "jones" will kill us. We can not afford a new city hall, the consultants already costs us and just to examine proposals will costs us more and we haven't even decided yet.

Where does this money come from? Sure in a perfect world it would be nice to have a city hall unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world. difficult decisions (the kind families make everyday) have to be made, waiting will not change much about we feel about DWK.

Zoso: where is the money going to come from indeed! We are effectively living on credit now. The revenue picture will not change for many years unless we rise taxes to double digit levels annually for the next decade. If we don't, cuts will have to be made to staff, we can't cut policing or fire prevention, but no more nice street lamps or park benches or sidewalks.

What kind of future does that make? Certainly not the kind that many here think we can afford. If we continue to borrow by 2022 our debt will be over $83 million, debt servicing costs will triple, which put further strains on our existing operating deficit, creating even more debt.

We just have to lower our expectations and at best keep debt levels manageable the very least. Little infrastructure improvements every year here and there, but certainly nothing grand. Why do we have to be like every other much older municipality in the Okanagan?

Depressing isn't it. Is there an upside to our financial reality? Sometimes just treading water is what good govt. means. Look to other measures to find success in life, family, education, travel, open spaces, revel in the fact we live in a safe, clean community even if we don't have sidewalks, or other amenities we see in in more mature municipalities.

If we fail as an municipality even savaging us by amalgamation with Kelowna will not save us from tax increases, or the feeling (like Rutland) of everything being Kelowna centric. One day we will join with Lake country, Kelowna and Peachland to form one metropolis, and when that day comes as a free standing municipality we will get a chair at that table, unlike Rutland or Glenmore.

This is long way off and some may think...what the heck, no big deal and if enough think it we might as well amalgamate today. I don't, I think it is a big deal to ensure an good settlement, for things like ensuring the westside is represented by people who live here by segregating a specific number of council seats to only westside residence.. Rutland still doesn't have someone on Kelowna's council.

[rotti]

People really need to get somewhat involved and at least go to a few meetings to see your elected officials in action either at council meetings or RDCO meeting. ( both are available on line). It unfortunately becomes very apparent that a few on council just like to hear themselves speak but in all reality usually don't say anything constructive at all, in fact come across as being petty, soemtimes not informed or just making waves to seem like they are smarter than everyone else in the room.

I very strongly feel that this fall a new person needs to be voted in at the top spot as mayor. Time has come for a fresh outlook and new ideas to move West Kelowna forward. Become informed on the council of West Kelowna they will shape the community for years to come so you want to have the best we can get at the top. At this point and time it is not what we have. 2 terms is enough for any elected position time for change.

[Symbonite]

Well westbank and area were a bedroom community to Kelowna. People bought here to get lesser taxes than Kelowna. Well we are now the size of a city and we are our own identity. that its time for home owners to realize that the taxes are going to be different.

but even the make a building similar to the RCMP building we have here...which in my opinion a very nice looking building almost a icon on westbank now. Something similar and functional ALSO something that is not underbuilt to save money but somewhat overbuilt for future expansion. Again City hall should be where Cattle Country.

[jon peter christoff]

Yes Westbank grew up being a bedroom community to Kelowna, lower taxes and more rural lifestyle were draws, you're right so far. but I begin to drift-away on the part that we are "the size of city." What make that so, there are much smaller municipalities then us and there are much larger. We have not grown that larger from the days before incorporation.

Every year since incorporation on the citizen survey the number one choice is too keep taxes low, but in the same breath people want sidewalks, parks, pretty buildings and they want their sewers fixed never mind the stuff that come mandated from upper level government that require DWK to do with send the new funds to do it, like the $152 million dollars worth of water system improvement. Yes the RCMP building is nice, but so what, I'm sure your pretty, but neither has anything to do with whether we can afford a new city hall, and the reasons of better efficiency and civic pride and all that stuff.

Why do we measure our success with things we can not afford? What ever happened to long walks, or reading a book or visiting a friend, or healthy living, or family, these kind of measures; -the same ones that brought people to this side of the lake in the first place.

Taxes are scheduled to rise 3% every year to 2022, that 30% increase there is no city hall in that number. I can help but think there are empire builders at play on council: -legacy leavers, and monument builders. The council that decides this kind of stuff has a good income; more then many who live in DWK. That good steady income make it easy to think, what's a little increase in tax, it wouldn't hurt: -then it happens again and again and again until finally that 3% increase has become 6% or 8% or 12% annually to pay off the credit card that paid for all these pretty bobbles, and when people are paying so much in support of municipal bobbles and they have knowing left to spend, they will go back to long walks, reading books, visiting friends and family because it doesn't cost them anything.

[kumazatheef]

The council that decides this kind of stuff has a good income; more then many who live in DWK.

http://www.kelownacapnews.com/news/213220041.html

West Kelowna Mayor Doug Findlater made $62,608 in 2012, while the six councillors earned $21,250 each.

Granted this is just from their council duties, as for Dougie, he holds directorship on a few boards: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/doug-findlater/43/172/8b1

[jon peter christoff]

I don't begrudge a man for earning more, but it does rub me the wrong way when I feel because of it they lose touch with the common man in the (DWK) streets.

I read the recent article in the Westside Weekly where Doug said "not to worry" about DWK finances. But we collect enough to just and I mean just pay for our municipal structure, and little else. All improvements are financed on the credit card and paid for with increases in service charges. Sure we have a large credit limit ($350 million) but what kind of financial picture is when everything we build or will have in the future is on credit.

For my little house services charges are now hitting 60% of the value of my property tax and with this new water improvement service charges will jump again.

Of course -there are things we have to spend money on, but there are things we choose to spend money on. Council considers the new city hall because we are finishing another payment freeing up some money, instead of paying down more debt it's believed the city hall is somehow better?
To Doug's credit he told me they are considering partnering with Interior health to build a combined municipal hall and medical center...this is a good idea, however such a combination will only increase construction cost from the proposed $8 million to...well who knows!
The building foot print will increase as well as parking requirements and this increases land costs, but Interior health did not see the need to spend money here for a center in the first place, not when they are enlarging Kelowna General.
There is also talk of building into the city hall multipurpose commercial space to augment the costs, however there is an abundance of unused commercial space already.

The thing is when people are presented with these ideas many can see passed them towards the real implication and results. So they sound good but if you follow them to their logical conclusion they very often end up in smoke.

People lose sight of the implications of long term municipal debt because it hides behind these incremental increases that people think are small. Its like not wanting to look at their visa total bill and only focus on the minimum payment figure.

[Symbonite]

Yes Westbank grew up being a bedroom community to Kelowna, lower taxes and more rural lifestyle were draws, you're right so far. but I begin to drift-away on the part that we are "the size of city." What make that so, there are much smaller municipalities then us and there are much larger. We have not grown that larger from the days before incorporation.

http://www.districtofwestkelowna.ca/ind ... 33&page=19

this is the population of Westbank

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recen ... Eng&GC=913

By stats canada we would fit between Campbell River and Parksville that would mean we are 14th largest Population in BC. and between 70-90 overall in canada for base population. How can those places have some sort of REAL government center and with our population we dont. The Vote was towards Incorporation...you have to raise the taxes from a rural community to a City level and there can not be any backlash because again we voted that. we may lose people that dont agree with that but we will gain people from moving back in that do agree.

Penticton city hall is located downtown, kelowna is located downtown. Westbank has to have it downtown not in the middle of the boondocks but somewhere that will promote the 2 way couplet and promote their future vision of a pedestrian downtown. It has to be in that area where cattle country is. or kitty corner to that god aweful green gas station.

[Jx3]

By stats canada we would fit between Campbell River and Parksville that would mean we are 14th largest Population in BC. and between 70-90 overall in canada for base population. How can those places have some sort of REAL government center and with our population we dont. The Vote was towards Incorporation...you have to raise the taxes from a rural community to a City level and there can not be any backlash because again we voted that. we may lose people that dont agree with that but we will gain people from moving back in that do agree.

Penticton city hall is located downtown, kelowna is located downtown. Westbank has to have it downtown not in the middle of the boondocks but somewhere that will promote the 2 way couplet and promote their future vision of a pedestrian downtown. It has to be in that area where cattle country is. or kitty corner to that god aweful green gas station.

Agree with most of what you said except that bit about "promting the couplet". Why on Earth would we want to do that?? The couplet is what has completely killed Westbank Center and turned it into an embarassing eyesore.

[jon peter christoff]

We already have a civic center, it helps keep taxes down, so we have $$ for roads and sidewalks. We do need our taxes raised because we don't take in enough as it is for structural improvements.

Because they have one why do we need one? What kind of logic is that? I'm not saying we should never have one I'm saying it's too early in our municipal life, we are only six years old.

[waterwings]

I have downsized. I got rid of stuff, wonderful stuff, that I packed around for years and that wonderful stuff played a large part in why I kept upsizing. Did I need that wonderful stuff I had not used for years NOPE! Have a I kept collecting..yep but only when absolutely needed and who shoudl decide what I need or don't need. That is up to the occupant of the space, and I seriously doubt that any of us understand what type of storage is required to keep up to date on the happenings, going ons, liablility issues (yep gotta include them), storage of stuff, files, and what about people who work for us. Don't they need space. I don't in any way know what is required to run a District and I doubt many of you do either. I do know that City Hall does not run like a household or a small business cause it ain't. I do know that the couplet was put into being by a few business people in that area cause they puffed themselves up so they could benefit if you could reach that business by being able to turn around block after block. The City Hall in no way needs to face on to the couplet because in time the couplet will go the way of the doughboy and I want to be able to park when I go to pay my taxes even with a 3% increase and I don't want to have purchase more parking space in 10, 15, years to accommodate the increase in poulation and densification cause they are coming folks - people are tired of the noise and confusion of the lower mainland. Check the stats they are leaving for the Okanagan, Pariries. northern climates in droves. Good Lord we could be paying a million per parking space if we don't look to the future now. Get a Grip Folks. The guy at City Hall in charge of finances has done a spectacular job of keeping the District of West Kelowna financial situation excellent. Go on check out other cities and districts to see what I mean.

[beancounter]

While I'm still on the fence as to if we even need a new Civic Centre yet, this proposal makes sense to me.
http://www.kelownacapnews.com/opinion/letters/259272661.html
It would be close the the new Boucherie Rapid Transit exchange being constructed, and may be less expensive than starting from scratch. I'm not sure the "process" can be interrupted at this point, since 4 candidates have already been shortlisted; but if it would potentially save $ it should be looked at IMO.

[waterwings]

Ms. Yeats, again, has her opinion and writes a letter without doing due diligence like phoning City Hall and asking a few pertinent questions> How much would the redo of a building that services a structure that has never reflected the needs of a business office cost. Seems to me building a new building would be cheaper than renovating from one design to another. How adequate is the air conditioning? How much to update the plumbing. What would the cost of weight bearing walls be to build offices and department? Would they have to break down the entire cement floor of the building to build the required number of washrooms for staff? Is there adequate heating facilities to service an office building in a structure that did not require heating. How much will it cost to make a flat roof building safe to house and service people in places that now simply stores supplies and uncut lumber? How much to tear out the machines that kept dust down to a minimum or was one ever installed. Why didn't she phone City Hall and ask the questions before proceeding to put information forward as she has done. Nope Ms. Yeats now wants a full report which will cost taxpayers money when staff may have already determined the information and made a decision. And Ms. Yeats may want a city hall in an industrial area of my home town. I certainly don't. What an image we would make for visitors or tourists to remember as they came across the bridge from the north, south, east and west. Imagine it folks.

[Steve-O]

In the other hand; Ms. Yeats is thinking outside the box. Not a bad idea she proposes while you bring up some valid points as well WW.

[canadman]

I think the cattle country would be best....

I agree. When is the dwk finally going to force that land owner to do something with that eyesore???? How long has it been now? 10 years??!

[waterwings]

I don't like what you are doing with your properties at all. I want the DWK to force you to do something different with them.

And how are the above statements any different than what you two have agreed on, and don't tell me that sitting empty is not an option to a landowner cause he pays his taxed more than likely in a timely manner cause it wasn't listed in the last listing in the local paper of those who haven't paid their taxes. When and if the taxes are not paid the DWK will have the option of owing the property and changing the way the property looks. In the meantime you two stay current on your taxes cause someone else may want you to change your usage to.

Just saying!!!!