West Kelowna Financial Picture

[kumazatheef]

Kumazatheff, you are missing the point.

More so, "the point" hasn't been clearly stated ... saying that Council is lying and in the same breath saying lack of investigative reporting confuses 2 different subject points.

Show me where Council has lied ... not a "lying by omission", but an outright lie. "We have $$ mil in reserves" is not a lie.

jon peter christoff ' s post in breaking accounting et all down is great (although, curiosity has me wondering what the "removed" text was ;) ) .... yeah we have a big problem coming down the track, coulda told you that a few years ago when we didn't amalgamate with Kelowna and the fact that a good chunk of land in West Kelowna is owned by WFN.

[jon peter christoff]

Kumazatheef: I knew it would be the harder row to hoe but I voted for incorporation primarily for the reason that when that future day comes that we all amalgamate from lake Country to Peachland into Okanagan City or Greater Kelowna we get a seat at the table of those negotiations. Time will tell if this is a small victory or large.

We can make it still but requires some tough decisions, council seems to respond more to citizen surveys and the wants and wishes no matter how unrealistic, leaving legacies and perhaps monuments to their tenure. All well and good if they can be afforded but they can't.

WFN now blocks our applications for crown land, It doesn't take rocket science to see why, the constant animosity that pervades some in our community hinders us in mutual understanding and common goals. Like in any family sometimes one brother makes out well and the other brother makes out well another time.

The provincial govt. ( not Ben the other guy) handled this very poorly, water safety is important but first nations are better stewards of the land then we are, we could have worked with them, but some were upset at the size, which is nonsense because that land would lie fallow for decades, but as a result there are some pieces of crown land DWK could use right now that are being block by WFN, in retaliation, though they would never say so.

I still think we can make it. Kelowna council would not have offered anything to us we can not do ourselves, dividing operating costs around more households would not prevent tax increase of the kind we now need. We would just have less input and be complaining about $800,000 toilets and poor design of Bernard like they are doing.

We have to cut spending to the bone not just for a few years but for the next decade, this will take a re-education of westsiders expectations of local govt. We don't have to look like Kelowna or Vancouver to be successful, we need to be safe, clean and keep the cost of living here affordable...that is what success means.

[GordonH]

Open and honest government will happening the day pigs grow wings and fly.

[mexi cali]

JPC; What we need is a driver. We have a bus. we have the passengers (council) but we have no driver (council).

While a lot of what we are experiencing may be new to the municipality and the passengers, it's not new historically. This road has been traveled many times before.

The truth is that you may be right. we are heading for fiscal hardship if not disaster because we have no one who is willing to do what needs to be done.

What might that be you ask?

Ask your wives. The ones who control the influx and outpouring of cash into the family unit. They will tell you that if column A is a bigger number than column B, you are headed down a slippery slope. A wife is honest and transparent about the reality of the fiscal responsibility. Heck, most homeowners are more honest about these same realities than a governmental body is either willing or capable of being.

They talk about millions in reserve; they gloss over the millions in debt and they all go home at the end of the day and their personal bank accounts look pretty much the same.

But at the end of the day, the math will tell you the truth.

we need a hard nosed disciplined homeowner who knows how to balance a friggin check book to be the mouth piece for our little communities truth.

I admire your dedication to finding the numbers and explaining what they mean but the average Joe, me included gets all glossy eyed and slack jawed and zone out. We can' afford to do that anymore because something wicked this way comes and for some of us, our children will be left holding on to the big bag of crap that we are allowing to be filled now.

We need doers on our council. Not watchers.

[kumazatheef]

we need a hard nosed disciplined homeowner who knows how to balance a friggin check book to be the mouth piece for our little communities truth.

Judging by the number of houses with lifted pickups and a garage full of expensive toys, not sure if you'd find that on the Wetside. ;) … just kidding …

@JPC: If we were to cut spending to the bone and yet still be safe, what about every neighbourhood crying fowl for not having sidewalks? Or at the least, no shoulders? I know this is a basic (yet common) example, but that's the "joy" of being an elected official: everyone wants stuff, but no one wants the taxes to go along with it.

I'm not disagreeing with you, it is gonna suck before it gets better, but also ties back to what mexicalidreamer ways saying: it will take a driver to make the hard decisions that are evident to those deeply invested … sadly, if the general populous don't get what they want, they'll elect someone else … and therein lies the rub …

[Rwede]

Findlater has reached his best before date, the same as Baker in Lake Country (Baker is actually rancid).

Time for these "new" municipalities to clean house and get some experienced business people to take them to the next level.

[jon peter christoff]

To Mex...) Ya we need strong voices on council, after six years a routine has settled in, there seems to be pandering going on now, lot's of shiny marbles appearing out of the bag (city halls and fancy street lights etc).

As you say Mex. nobody wants to look at the details and even if they sense something is a-miss, they close their eyes and reach for the credit card, kicking the ugliness down the road so someone else will fix it and even if they don't govt. or what's more likely, somebody will bail them out and reset the clock, so the whole thing will happen again.

They see it happening everyday, people are excused (the Rob Ford saga) from their actions. Today credit has replaced cash (actual wealth) in the bank, the only necessity in today's credit world is cash-flow (job) to make debt servicing, nobody seems to believe savings are achievable.

As boring as budget details are, like your example of your wife, somebody must do it, because the devil is in the details, hidden in plain-sight .

But that is only half the story, the other half is the acting on these details. Out of 30,000 population and a little less in registered voters only about 5000 people brother to vote in the last municipal election.

In any voting market there are generally only 20% of active and interested people who cease upon the opportunity to vote their choice. The rest don't care really, like ancient Rome they are the "mob", -out of 30,000 we have our top tier, our middle tier and those at the bottom.

Those at the top get involved to make sure things don't change for them, the middle are too busy surviving and the bottom who scream the loudest are too marginalized to be effective.

@kama..) Safe is police and fire safety. Sidewalks and other niceties can be paid for if taxes rise to double digit annual increases, nobody on council is strong enough to do this.

Even electing one individual with a thick enough skin who feels this way, -he/she still only represents only one vote and maybe nothing would change. But one vocal barking voice (watching the webcasts now that Rosalind is gone we don't have that anymore) is enough to constantly remind voters about the ugly truth and may (hopefully) get some of the drastic cutting in staff and community expectation necessary to extend life longer.

If the empire still falls in spite of this kind of effort at least the record is straight.

[rosalind neis]

Thanks Jon – I stepped out for a while, but as I look into more and more information I feel the need to share.

I can’t seem to stop wondering where the money is going to come from and even more concerned over how it is being spent. NO one on council seems to question, or do any investigating, into what they are being told by those consulting groups that have received thousands of your and my dollars to prepare reports and do studies.

Yes it is a very complicated process, but as I was reading the Transportation Master Plan prepared in Feburary of 2014 I couldn’t help but notice that the consultants of that report showed a requirement of $79.5M to upgrade arterial roads and another $109M for major and minor collector road upgrades. They also suggest an annual (maintenance) cost of $5M a year.

Even more interesting was the current road value of $84M listed in this report. I went back to the 2012 audited financial statements and have asked District of West Kelowna for a detailed breakdown of what they list as capital assets in the report and what exactly makes up the $230,936,836 in assets?? I hope to find that these numbers coincide or something is not right.

On top of the road upgrades (which I believe municipalities should have as a high priority), we also have the water and sewer systems that need improvements and upgrading. All this together is in the hundreds of millions over the next 20 years.

We need people in the decision making positions to realize that we can no longer be spending money on things that are not necessities – Wake up – There is only one pot that the money comes from and it is tax payers! Please get your priorities right.

[jon peter christoff]

Absolutely, we knew from the beginning we had a lot of infrastructure catch-up to do as a municipality moving from rural into more urban setting. Taxes have increased 21% since we incorporated in 2007 and are scheduled to increase another 21% up to 2022, and it really doesn't make a dent in anticipated future road and sewer costs.

I too question the need to always hire consultants to tell council what to do. What is wrong with doing it in-house with our talented municipal staff? I know solicitations for upper level govt. money need to be accompanied by some sort of study, but this recent one about the new municipal hall takes the cake!

Council seems to think when we have finished paying down one debt and free-up some annual cash flow we should immediate spend it on visible-trinkets, instead of more important and needed invisible-structural improvements to our community.

The recent lament by Glenrosa Homeowner's Association for another exit road out of Glenrosa in case of future fire makes more sense then a new city hall. We are still young as a municipality we haven't reached adolescence yet. We don't have to compete with WFN in their effort to urbanize their reserve.

We should reveal in our rural nature of agriculture and orchards, of small communities of homes clustered around the Westside, that is our unique nature: we don't have to look like Kelowna.

[waterwings]

I too question the need to always hire consultants to tell council what to do. What is wrong with doing it in-house with our talented municipal staff?

OMG our talented municipal staff has all the knowledge that consulting firms specifically hire it staff for. I sat on a Future Plan Committee for 2 very long years and many of my peers wanted to make decisions for the city we were planning for. Our mentor had a great plan "lets do our planning and lets get the consultants to do one." I need not tell you that the consultants plan acknowledged problems to be solved that the committee plan had not even thought of not less considered and yes the consultant plan cost a whole lot more but.....our DWK staff is talented but there experience is very limited. And then there are the liability issues.

And, I think Rosalind needs to spend much more time learning about first liability issues and second reading and gaining more experience on how to, when to, what to know everything for when she reads reports because it is obvious her only concern is to save money and that is a good thing for taxpayers except when the whole of an issue is not looked at. There is far more at the table of decisions than sounding good to taxpayers.

[waterwings]

Oh .... I need to add that the committee's plan used the talented staff of the City for its reference and guidance.

[jon peter christoff]

Yes, consultants serve a purpose, but we don't need to hire one to tells us whether we can afford the planned municipal hall because money is coming free from retiring some debt, nor to move the decision along to where it cost another $100,000 just to hear from the potential sites owners.

I remember when I voted on a referendum for $3 million for the arena, that ended up as a $11 million debt we inherited upon incorporation, along with the $25 million cash from the province. In seven years we now have a $32 million debt and $30 million in reserves. This means we added $800,000 to the reserves every year but we spent $3 million every year.

Unfortunately we can not go on much longer like this. Rosalind is right to wonder about our assets of approximately $250 million...well that also speaks to our credit line, -so yes debt funding is the life of municipal govt., but that rises a question: -if we have to borrow everything (projected growth and scheduled tax increases to 2022 ) -so what we spend on becomes critical to long term success. We need structural improvements not bobbles, we would be better placed fixing our sewers and roads and going after more municipal land, sure we need our own municipal building, but we need other thing first.

Council can be reactionary rather then proactive, -success in the current long term economic climate using the traditional model of government as the "facilitator", is not enough anymore. New and even unorthodox approach towards community are needed, active engagement within the economic life of the community, for the betterment of the entire community. The future requires a new paradigm.

The liability issues:...please explain?

[waterwings]

In seven years we now have a $32 million debt and $30 million in reserves. This means we added $800,000 to the reserves every year but we spent $3 million every year.

Geez, for a brand new municipality with loads and loads of upgrades and new services being implemented I think we are very lucky to be in the position that we are in. Of course, when one wants to make waves an issue can be made out of any numbers but we are very lucky to have had the financial guidance that we have had. And, for what we have built and improved upon along with every other infrastructure we have had to deal with while being brand new 3 million ain't a drop in the bucket unless one wants West Kelowna to look like Westbank does or did prior to incorporation. Go to other municipal sites and have a look at the difference between debt and reserve.

[jon peter christoff]

Yes we have done well for a new municipality, our inaugural council to date has done very well planning and setting up municipal structure, but we now have more infrastructure improvements then we first saw when we started out. Spending $$ in today's economic-climate takes someone who knows how to say NO.

If managing debt is what our future holds, priorities become important: -cosmetics over basic services. We can not urbanize as fast as WFN.

What other municipalities do, may and may not apply, our youth offers us some flexibility. DWK has looked to other municipalities for direction and ideas, but the way I see it is that we can do things other Municipalities haven't or can't.

My comment about debt and reserve is to bring to notice DWK takes in less then it spends and as everyone knows that can not go forever.

[waterwings]

My comment about debt and reserve is to bring to notice DWK takes in less then it spends and as everyone knows that can not go forever.

Sir: a balanced budget is a wonderful thing. In my home I work toward that end every single month because I have no other way to pay off balances due other than what I take in. However, I am making decisions that I am willing to live with. I am making decisions that I am willing to suffer through. In the case of the municipality that I live in this is not true because council is making decisions for people of every description not only those well heeled enough to be able to pay for whatever they want to happen in their life. With that said council in making determination and decisions must bring all lives into consideration and at times that means spending beyond its means to have EVERYONE have the same opportunities. What are you looking to do? Create situations and agendas where the majority of DWK would have to have millions in the bank before growth would continue. Do you want only the well heeled to be able to do anything in our community? When spending goes up a few percentage points beyond where it is now you will have something to worry about.

And, just like life looking backwards to find and correct errors is good judgment and the basis of good reasoning and maturity comes through learning from mistakes. Just saying!