West Kelowna Financial Picture

[jon peter christoff]

I only hope for safe, clean affordable community where families can live for generations. Council of course must make decisions based on what is best for the overall community.

Being rich or poor (of which I am) makes no difference, quality of life is what you make it.

Deficit financing is one thing, but structural deficit is another. It's always a fine line between ending up in the red or black when dealing with limited funds.

[waterwings]

Again, words are like numbers and you should state exactly what you would you do to stay within the budget. Be accountable. Look to the future and tell me what changes you would make and also TELL me what the rewards and CONSEQUENCES of your actions would bring while using your wonderful words.

A Prof. once told a class "don't expect to be any smarter than a person with a grade three education when you are finished, but let me tell you folks...you will know more words and how to use them." So please put that skill to work and tell me what rewards and consequences that the rest of DWK will feel if you get your way.

[nextimeround]

Very good info Rosalind and Jon, thanks. Many out there will happily jump down your throats because you are taking a stand against the current political regime. Meanwhile we have watched the promise of a vibrant community with growing potential turn into a stagnant tuft of land straddled by WFN developments. All the while property values plummet (in my area at least) and non-WFN businesses close up shop.

Not that long ago I was told "if you don't like West Kelowna why don't you move?" The answer is simple, I can't and I shouldn't have to. I can't sell my house because what should have been one of the most desirable areas in the province continues to flounder and anyone looking closely can see the warning signs of a community heading for financial disaster with little hope of avoiding that following the current leadership.

Flame away all you want people but you know deep in your heart this is true. The community isn't happy with the Mayor and Council, but in the typical Canadadian way we'd rather suffer through certain failure rather than face the uncertainty of change.

[waterwings]

Whoa there! I simply asked a legitimate question. What are the rewards and consequences if done differently. Name them.. Spell it out so there are not no surprises. Be accountable.

[Jim Dixon]

Hello Ms. Nies,

One of my simple pleasures is to sit down with a good cup of coffee and read the paper. I do this with hopes of starting my day full of information and maybe learn a thing or too.

Reading the 'news'paper to get information?

It's called the "news Medium", because it is "Very Rare, that it is Ever Well Done' :)

What the article DOESN’T include is anything beyond regurgitated statements on one side of the issue. Yes – West Kelowna does have reserves in the area of $31 Million, but how many people are aware of the debt owed by West Kelowna. Members of West Kelowna Council never talk about it, their financial representatives never talk about it, and our local reporters never report about it.

I feel any debt is common knowledge, is open for anyone to review, and if they are as good as they say they are at election time, then Councillors should be open to hear questions on it without referring it staff and bullycrats i.e., answer it themselves.

As of Dec. 2012 West Kelowna is in DEBT $417,363.00. .... but there is also over $32 Million in debt.

Any capital projects that might come to mind? A new arena, new ice plant in the old arena, Youth Centre, Westbank Irrigation District debt of about 14 million as I remember. What about ire Protection services? Were they debt-free when Westside inherited it? I've seen a lot of City cell phones being driven around as if they were trucks immune to rules of the road. They cost money.
The debt is what voters agreed to, voted yes to, and the liabilities the DWK inherited including Westbank debts.

Question: You would know since you were there ion the beginning, and I don't remember, but if a project, say a sewer project or sidewalk project is started, where does the money come from to pay for it? Does DWK reach in to the reserves, write post-dates cheques, or raise taxes right away to pay for it, or does DWK borrow that money?

I oppose spending any money in the next few years to build a city hall. There is plenty of empty building space around. A lot of people on the Westside have to tighten their belts every tax-day - so can city hall. The council are the ones that should be setting the example of declini98ng a raise, recycle (lots that they don't), reuse (building for city hall), and stop studying studies that were studied three times before!

if you are loading up your guns to run for council again... If there is a $32m debt - look who put it there - our very first council inherited it. What did that council do about it back then - in between scandals? I'm not pointing at you. As Mayor, you were the wrong arena for the wrong reasons with the wrong information along with very few people dedicated to people.

Not at this time.

Jim

[rosalind neis]

Thanks Waterwings

Your are correct that we have been incorporated for almost 7 years, 6.5 to be precise and you are also correct about the reserve and debt amounts. The way I do math, the $32M in debt works out to roughly $4.57 Million annually in debt and the $30M in reserves works out to roughly $4.28 stashed into a bank annual.

I took your advice and looked into 3 adjoining municipalities to see how we compare. This is what I found on the Internet for financial statements for 2012 for 3 similar municipalities.

Penticton – incorporated 1908 Debt $92M Reserves $69M
Vernon - incorporated 1892 Debt $667M Reserves $58M
Kamloops – incorporated 1893 Debt $170M Reserves $154M

So this shows that many municipalities in B.C. Work on a debt financing. Some more than others, but that doesn’t have to be the way government works if we don’t want it to. We just need to speak up and be patient. Save the money first, and then spend it.

The point I am trying to bring to peoples attention is First: Until this topic was raised, no one at city hall talked about our debt, they only talked about how much we had is reserves. I find that offensive and close too deceptive. I am aware that often debt financing is required, just like most of us with a mortgage – same thing.

The second point I am trying to make – albeit not very well – is that those in charge of the purse need to reassess the priorities for the best long-term future of our community. There are things we all want, but first, like many families, we need a roof over our head and food on the table. Then we can think about the new car and fancy clothes. That is the analogy to first fixing our infrastructure and then saving for the niceties that we all want in a vibrant community. Have the money before you spend it – borrowing only costs more in the long run – we all know this.

Mr. Dixon – again you need to check your facts before you make accusations. And for the record I do not own a gun.

[waterwings]

Penticton – incorporated 1908 Debt $92M Reserves $69M
Vernon - incorporated 1892 Debt $667M Reserves $58M
Kamloops – incorporated 1893 Debt $170M Reserves $154M

The name of this forum is West Kelowna Financial Picture and our financial planning has held debt to a minimum when compared to services that we have in this economy to those that the above noted have. Seems to me someone at City Hall has seen the light and is following the brick road with advice and kept us in good financial standing,

Madam you need to find another road to travel other than the financial picture because the DWK only as a 3 million difference between debt and reserve. Pretty dam good financial planning for boundaries and services of our size.

Also the district is NOT and will NEVER be your household financial picture. Please get past that and tell me what you plan for our district in a manner that I can keep you accountable over a span of time cause I am sick to death of political wordage. I want specifics that show me the rewards and consequences of any plan.

[jon peter christoff]

Yes up to today we have spent judiciously, but we must remember we were in the beginning years, setting up municipal apparatus and developing master plans, we have now moved on to a spending stage and need to develop stricter adherence to a long term plan of spending on needed infrastructure and basic services before the cosmetic niceties.

Unfortunate fact of our financial situation is that WFN can urbanize faster then us. But we are in fact a rural community at heart, we promote agriculture in our tourism, we regal visiting family the wonders of our Westside's orchards and hiking trails. Where is our produce market and farmers market, flower markets to promote our agriculture, and provide local jobs.

Why are we not pushing hard to get crown land added to municipal inventory? This would take a whole new openness with WFN govt. If we are ever to build a new municipal hall it must be on municipal land to afford the best economics.

We don't have to look like Kelowna or Vancouver or anywhere else, nothing wrong with being unique.

[waterwings]

Nope nothing wrong with being unique. However, will there be uniqueness in the dialogue between lawyers and DWK over Crown Land that WFN is already claiming. Is there uniqueness in building where services are not central to the business district or in the very least part of it. The best and brightest are not those who think outside of the box and cost us loads and load of tax dollars. The best and the brightest will be those who tell us what the rewards and consequences are of their thinking patterns so we can decide what is best for us the tax payer and go before council and let them know what we think. The time for us to stand up for what you think is hopefully gone.....

[jon peter christoff]

[b]The following are excerpts from a letter to the editor I submitted by was not printed:

Unfortunately old racial prejudices still sit in the background with some in DWK and hinder a sincere mutual respect approach between us and WFN. These old prejudices came to a head recently over the 640 acres around the Rose Valley reservoir.

Our Mayor was right to be concerned about water safety for Rose Valley and angry at the fact he had not been privy to details before the province announced. WFN has the right to negotiate in any fashion they thing is best, but it can honestly said, even without hindsight that adhering to sound business practices makes clear that involving all affective parties is the best way to succeed.

The province and particularly Blair Lekstrom Minister of Transportation in charge handled the process poorly and this was compounded by boisterous outrage at what appeared on the surface a lopsided deal.

Legitimate concern mixed with some over the top outrage over size was ultimately hijacked by loud ugly voices of old racial prejudices that fuelled the prevention of any repair to a situation that turn from bad to worse.

Forward movement by the more enlightened people to jointly work with WFN to ensure water safety and park land, while honouring their deal in whole or part was lost. The thing is WFN are better stewards of the land then we are, much of the land is steeply sloped and would have remained fallow for decades, if not forever. They would have worked with us to guarantee safe water and honoured park land, maybe even cut their request size and looked elsewhere. Who knows what could have happened in a climate of mutual respect.

DWK has no municipal land and this limits us. The application for the most opportunistic piece of crown land on Barley and Stevens is being blocked by WFN. They say the land was theirs and they are going after ever piece of it. It is not hard to hear the echo of spite in that reasoning. It doesn't take rocket science to see why.

Our long municipal life will require close working relationship with WFN and to work with them we have to learn that sometimes losing is winning and winning really means we lose.

[waterwings]

Geez.....I spent most of the afternoon searching through DWK website because I remembered seeing something about a finance policy when I was looking for the incorporation letter some time ago. Took a while but I finally found what I was looking for dated December 8th, 2009 and I looked to make sure that Rosalind sat on council at that time and had to have been part of the approval process. Have a look - The document spells out what council can and cannot do or approve when it comes to Issuance and Management of Debt for DWK.

You will have to copy and paste the http: as I couldn't get the page to move.

Transparency is a good thing .


http://www.districtofwestkelowna.ca/Mod ... entid=2484

[A_Britishcolumbian]

DISTRICT OF WEST KELOWNA

COUNCIL POLICY MANUAL


Pages: 1 of 1
Approval Date: 2009-DEC-08

SECTION: FINANCE
SUBJECT: ISSUANCE AND MANAGEMENT OF DEBT

PURPOSE

To guide the issuance and management of debt. Issuing debt commits a municipality’s revenues several
years into the future, and may limit the government’s flexibility to respond to changing service priorities,
revenue inflows, or cost structures. Adherence to a debt policy can help ensure that debt is issued and
managed sensibly in order to maintain a sound fiscal position and protect credit quality.

POLICY:

Recommended expense where debt may be used:

1. One-time capital improvements and unusual equipment purchases.
2. When the useful project life will exceed the term of financing.
3. Major equipment purchases.
4. Debt servicing is limited to no more then a 3% tax increase per year.
5. The maximum borrowing amount be limited to 15% (Community Charter allows for 255) of the
Districts revenues as defined by the Community Charter.
6. Reserves are to be considered as a funding source before debt.
7. Purchase of property, if deemed by council as essential to the operation of the Municipality.

http://www.districtofwestkelowna.ca/Mod ... entid=2484

[Jim Dixon]

[*]

....................
Mr. Dixon – again you need to check your facts before you make accusations. And for the record I do not own a gun.

Facts? What "facts" are you referring to parts with my opinions (you tolled 'opinions' into accusations)?
There are no "accusations". Since you obviously don't research anything, and I do:

As for a "gun" - Yeah - sure - what ever.
Gunning

Cambridge Dictionary of American Idioms "trying to achieve something 'Students gunning for admission to one of the top colleges ........."

How about you telling people here what you think the debt consists of?
j

[Jim Dixon]

Besides A_Britishcolumbian » Tue, 29 Apr 2014 17:11:37 post of the rules, following is where the core is regarding debt.

Debt and what it really is.

Debt and what your neighbours say about it.


Please - before there announcing anything about the positron and lifetime of the sky, ask those who have no reason to befuddle or baffle anyone - City Hall.

j

[rosalind neis]

Waterwings – we are getting off topic here, but to answer your implication about the Dec.8, 2009 meeting around reserves Balances and Debt Levels – you will see by the copy of the minutes of the meeting that I was present, but I was the only councilor OPPOSED to the motion (see last line of minutes below) – being part of the process doesn’t always mean that you support the process. Council works on a majority vote, so I stand by all my original points.

As to your comment earlier about telling you what I would plan to do – that should be saved for a political platform. I just want a great community, that spends wisely and I hope that in November the voters endorse the candidates that publically state their ideas to achieve those goals.

I again agree with your point that it is easy to sound critical and like a complainer – however, it is those people that come up with real ideas and suggestions that impress me the most. And so far I haven’t seen much of that in our present council.


DISTRICT OF WEST KELOWNA COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING MINUTES 2009-DEC-08
12. STAFF REPORTS:
COW046-09 It was moved and seconded that item 12(e), Soil/Gravel Removal, Pettersen Road be moved to be the next item of business. The motion carried.
Webcast: 01:47:00
COW047-09
Webcast: 02:01:40
COW048-09
Webcast: 02:27:45
Webcast: 02:58:50
COW049-09
(e) Soil/Gravel Removal, Pettersen Road
It was moved and seconded that Council direct staff to continue to work with the developer of Lots A, B, C of PL 89366, DL 3111, and the local residents and to:  Require the developer to obtain a permit from the Director of Engineering,
under District Traffic Bylaw No. 0092, to address issues related to traffic safety and impacts to District roads; and
 Require the developer to obtain a permit from the Director of Development Services, under District Good Neighbour Bylaw No. 0071, to address issues related to noise, dust and public disturbance.
The motion carried. (a) Information Report from Lorne Raymond, Manager of Finance, re:
Grant-in-Aid Applications – 2010 (supplemental) Council reviewed the 2010 Grants-in-Aid applications.
It was moved and seconded that Council direct staff to write to the Regional District of Central Okanagan, offering to pay the District of West Kelowna’s share of the Starling Control Program for 2010; and
That staff request information from the RDCO on the Starling Control Program. The motion carried.
(b) Information Report from Jim Zaffino, Chief Financial Officer, re: 2009 Budget/Service Survey (supplemental)
Council reviewed the 2009 Citizens’ Budget/Services Survey. (c) Setting Reserve and Debt Levels (supplemental)
It was moved and seconded that Council adopt the Issuance and Management of Debt Policy as amended to limit the maximum borrowing level to 10% of the District’s revenue. The motion was defeated. Mayor Findlater, Councillors Knowles, Milsom, Ophus, and Winsby opposed.
COW050-09 It was moved and seconded that Council adopt the Policies on Minimum Reserve Balances and Debt Levels. The motion carried. Councillor Neis opposed.