Helicopters All Day Long

[fall]

People seem to like having them around when they're putting out fires...

ETA: For what it's worth, I agree that some pilots can be inconsiderate and that, in some cases, there would be ways of avoiding flying so low over houses but there's been helicopters flying in the area for a very long time and I don't think it's going away. I guess it would be nice if realtors would ask people if they're bothered by this (because not everyone is) but then again, we're talking realtors here.

They charge an insane amount to fight fires rightfully so, but they are not doing their community any favors for free. In fact they were committed down South for the most part during this summers fires.

[omisimaw]

I love to have peace and quiet too.

I just find it ironic that very many people would complain about the sound of necessary helicopter operations in an area known for having helicopters in a time where so many people seem to be in love with making all kinds of unnecessary noise (as in, loud bikes, trucks, cars, boats, sound systems etc. etc.) and almost seem to claim it as their right.

IMO, if we're going to talk about reducing noise, lets start with the unnecessary kind first.

Problem with the helicopter operations is these little ma and pa operations started up and are no longer little.
What used to be a handful of craft at the Alpine/Aerotech facilities on an off again on again basis has changed.
What used to be a small operator with one or two machines that were at home base once and awhile, mainly for maintenance, has grown to 5 plus machines each, all medium sized and load aircraft. PLUS these operations also do maintenance on other company machines....
The whole complexity and idea of permitting this over a residential area has changed and needs to be addressed Restrictions need to be enforced and possibly even beefed up as the residential area surrounding this little industrial encampment has also grown substantially.

[omisimaw]

People seem to like having them around when they're putting out fires...

ETA: For what it's worth, I agree that some pilots can be inconsiderate and that, in some cases, there would be ways of avoiding flying so low over houses but there's been helicopters flying in the area for a very long time and I don't think it's going away. I guess it would be nice if realtors would ask people if they're bothered by this (because not everyone is) but then again, we're talking realtors here.

They charge an insane amount to fight fires rightfully so, but they are not doing their community any favors for free. In fact they were committed down South for the most part during this summers fires.

Yes, you see from time to time one or two machines from a local operator on a local fire but the majority are not the local operators at all. They do not get a first call or preferential hire due to the location of their base of operations and it is just as likely they have their machines out fighting fires anywhere in Canada... many move machines around and position them for hire based on fire patterns, so FI Wildcat could have all their machines in Alberta working when a fire flares up in the okanagan.

[fall]

I love to have peace and quiet too.

I just find it ironic that very many people would complain about the sound of necessary helicopter operations in an area known for having helicopters in a time where so many people seem to be in love with making all kinds of unnecessary noise (as in, loud bikes, trucks, cars, boats, sound systems etc. etc.) and almost seem to claim it as their right.

IMO, if we're going to talk about reducing noise, lets start with the unnecessary kind first.

I have never disagreed that it is necessary and needs to be somewhere and recognize Alpine has long roots here and have no problem with that. The other companies are relatively new. Is it necessary to fly low over top of residential neighborhoods on and off all day long, I don't know? I would think that they could fly higher and further out over the mountainous region and do their training and testing there without disturbing the community. There was Alpine and now the district has allowed three more companies so now we have that many more hovering over our houses.

[westbanker]

instead of all the guessing.... just contact NAV Canada

-the aircraft must be 300ft above residential
-if you wish to make a complaint about the way an air craft is being operated you have to contact NAV Canada, and they will send you a PACKAGE that you must fill out

I don't believe the issue here is really general aircraft noise, I think the root issue here is just a couple of them that operate so low and in such a capacity that everything is vibrating in your house, and you feel like it's going to land on your dining room table. I had one once where I could feel the rotor thumbs in my chest.

I don't think all the traffic can be pinpointed to the local Westside businesses, some have to be passing through.

[fall]

Problem with the helicopter operations is these little ma and pa operations started up and are no longer little.
What used to be a handful of craft at the Alpine/Aerotech facilities on an off again on again basis has changed.
What used to be a small operator with one or two machines that were at home base once and awhile, mainly for maintenance, has grown to 5 plus machines each, all medium sized and load aircraft. PLUS these operations also do maintenance on other company machines....
The whole complexity and idea of permitting this over a residential area has changed and needs to be addressed Restrictions need to be enforced and possibly even beefed up as the residential area surrounding this little industrial encampment has also grown substantially.

Wow, someone has common sense, very well put. It is a very small industrial area.

[fall]

instead of all the guessing.... just contact NAV Canada

-the aircraft must be 300ft above residential
-if you wish to make a complaint about the way an air craft is being operated you have to contact NAV Canada, and they will send you a PACKAGE that you must fill out

I don't believe the issue here is really general aircraft noise, I think the root issue here is just a couple of them that operate so low and in such a capacity that everything is vibrating in your house, and you feel like it's going to land on your dining room table. I had one once where I could feel the rotor thumbs in my chest.

I don't think all the traffic can be pinpointed to the local Westside businesses, some have to be passing through.

Holy, that is low. 300 feet. No wonder houses shake and you have to plug your ears at times. I thought it was 1000 feet, no wonder I thought they were lower. I don't think they fly lower than 300ft over houses often aside from the time when the pilot barely skimmed the tree tops, which was not Alpine.

[OREZ]

Yes, you see from time to time one or two machines from a local operator on a local fire but the majority are not the local operators at all. They do not get a first call or preferential hire due to the location of their base of operations and it is just as likely they have their machines out fighting fires anywhere in Canada... many move machines around and position them for hire based on fire patterns, so FI Wildcat could have all their machines in Alberta working when a fire flares up in the okanagan.

Yeah, I know all about that. I never said that local operators get first call, it's far more complicated than that and not very relevant to the discussion.

I merely said that when this place is an inferno in the summer, people never complain about helicopter operations. Then they're all heros.

[omisimaw]

I have never disagreed that it is necessary and needs to be somewhere and recognize Alpine has long roots here and have no problem with that. The other companies are relatively new. Is it necessary to fly low over top of residential neighborhoods on and off all day long, I don't know? I would think that they could fly higher and further out over the mountainous region and do their training and testing there without disturbing the community. There was Alpine and now the district has allowed three more companies so now we have that many more hovering over our houses.

No it is not necessary but every time the blade turns the bank account opens. yes it is necessary to go up and down all day if necessary, called run ups, and are used to test machines and to do balance work.
Training is more complex and they do fly off and return. Some can not do the mountains, takes special certification.
The district allowed the companies when they zoned the land so they have not had to actually even deal with this, the land use allows this type of operation, as it does car wreckers, boat storage, repair shops and all the other business you see along Stevens.
It is Transport that can nix and regulate over and above the actual ability to be in business in that area. Operators must apply for and receive the rights to land and take off from Transport.

[omisimaw]

Yes, you see from time to time one or two machines from a local operator on a local fire but the majority are not the local operators at all. They do not get a first call or preferential hire due to the location of their base of operations and it is just as likely they have their machines out fighting fires anywhere in Canada... many move machines around and position them for hire based on fire patterns, so FI Wildcat could have all their machines in Alberta working when a fire flares up in the okanagan.

Yeah, I know all about that. I never said that local operators get first call, it's far more complicated than that and not very relevant to the discussion.

I merely said that when this place is an inferno in the summer, people never complain about helicopter operations. Then they're all heros.

True that in 2003 it was like we were in Vietnam and everyone was cheering them on.

I like the fact they are using less helicopters and more fixed wing in fire fighting and yes they are under Forestry direction and here in BC that changed a few years ago and is now directed out of Kamloops with companies having to compete for contracts for the season and the balance stand by for emergency casual hire (more money too)... but the game is there and the local companies are not given any preferential treatment which in some cases can be more costly, especially if they have machines sitting on the ground in Kelowna but the system makes them bring a machine down from Kamloops or Salmon Arm.

[fall]

Yeah, I know all about that. I never said that local operators get first call, it's far more complicated than that and not very relevant to the discussion.

I merely said that when this place is an inferno in the summer, people never complain about helicopter operations. Then they're all heros.

Of course people wouldn't complain about operations during a fire. We don't have wildfires daily either. I really liked those four float planes, now they were effective. The helicopters did a great job also.

[OREZ]

Of course people wouldn't complain about operations during a fire. We don't have wildfires daily either. I really liked those four float planes, now they were effective. The helicopters did a great job also.

No we don't have wildfires ever day. The helicopters you are complaining about are working helicopters, not pleasure craft. They do various kinds of jobs in addition to firefighting and need to come in for re-rigging when they switch jobs (which is usually seasonal). As well, they are all on a strict maintenance schedule, and run-ups and test flights are essential if they are to be ready for whatever they are called called upon to do.

It just happens that you live in one of the developments nearby. I can understand that it gets annoying but it is what it is. I honestly don't believe that even if the vast majority of home-owners complained about it to M.O.T. or whoever else you can think of, that it would change much. As I said earlier, I think the pilots themselves could afford to be a little more considerate at times but.... they're pilots. It takes a certain kind of person to take that job on. I'll leave it at that.

[GenesisGT]

When ever there are numerous noise complaints reference aircraft/helicopters the first step taken is to determine the actual extent of the problem.
If you want to see how they did this in Vancouver goto
http://www.yvr.ca/en/community-environment/Noise-management/Webtrak.aspx

Some issues in West Kelowna will be that YVR Airport Authority paid for the program (there is no airport authority in West Kelowna), the availability of radar data at low levels, transponder requirements.

[LTD]

ok how much ya wanna bet the the heli places were there before the people complaining about them get over it or move pretty simple really

[fall]

ok how much ya wanna bet the the heli places were there before the people complaining about them get over it or move pretty simple really

how much ya gotta ta bet? 3 of the 4 are new and air traffic has grown substantially. Even if they were here before which they were not, West Kelowna would be dead without its residents, business doesn't exactly thrive here. The district should have a bit more consideration for the thousands of homes the helicopters hover over.