Hot Tubs

[gardengirl]

*removed*

[raniculas]

Hawo everybody. i am in the hot tub and pool industry. the down side to the 110 is the heat and jets can not be on at the same time.

soooooooo

say your 110v hot tub heats up and your ready to jump in....thinking jeeeze why would i buy a 220-240 v hot tub when i saved so much money on the 110 model at a tent sale or (shudder......) or a hardware store

but lets say 1 hour into your hot tub experience ...heck maybe even 30 minutes. even the minute you hop in and turn the jets on .....the heat cannot function. and the tub starts to cool down. i cant even count the amount of times people discover this when its too late because the salesman said "ooooo shoot...the tub will stay hot or warm for hours" "you wont even notice its cooling down"

meanwhile your 220v hottub heats as your in it and feel free to turn on your jets.



one also important aspect of buying a tub at hardware store or tent sale or anyplace that is not a hot tub/poolstore is one that kicks peoples butts on a daily basis. What is this important aspect..well let me tell you...it keeps me employed. in fact in this single aspect i encourage you to save big bucks and purchase a tent or hardware store hotub..but that would be selfish of me....but hey i need a new vehicle


allright...your typical warranty on a tentsale brand or hardware store is when a part of the hotub breaks(heater, pump. heck even a seat cover).. you first had to register the hot tub with that company (no biggie) maybe even buy the warranty (meh a few hundred$$$ right) . you have to take the part out yourself and ship it in/// or hire a local company or tech- to do so. and send it in after you have contact your hot tub company. NO biggie right...but lets say in the time you have owned the tub you have not done water tests at your local pool store and had it officially recorded. (majority hot tub companys will take the pool stores records or word a lot faster and easier then your hand written log.) the tub company can send you your part back and say damagee do due poor water quality. and you cannot argue. and have to purchase the part even though the warranty is still in effect. often you will buy the part and forget the 2 surrounding parts or unions are worn out and might leak only to have to wait for a separate order or jimmy rig other types of unions or start cutting the pipes.

but...lets say you do have records of water quality and they send you a BRAND NEW PART BACk ...yaaaayyyy right<<<???

no. unless you can install it yourself you have to hire a pool/tub tech from a local store to install.and sometimes they need that extra 1/2 hour or hour just to learn your tub and do the repair in the right order.

the common part of those two scenarios is hiring a tech to work on your tub from the very stores you were avoiding because they cost more.

if you shop at the big local pool stores they warranty everything from 1 to 5 years right off at the start no charge... so all you have to do is go in and book a service....within the week s/he shows up ..and that day your hot tub is functional.

yes your average name brand hot tubs range from 5000 to 10000 from a pool store but the personal service and ease of dealing when these things when they break down or get scungy doesn't even compare to having to take the part out yourself and ship it to another country with your fingers crossed. also when they winterize or evacuate the water so mold doesn't grow if you let it sit for a year they guarantee it.

that is just my opinion. but like a i say half the calls are from tent sale victims. or budget hunters.

for some more bucks you can get 5 to 10 years of of a perfectly running tub with a few hiccups

instead of half price and 2-5 years later have to get a new one.

and in the same timeline spend the same or even more from a tent sale.

[canadman]

Hate to throw 'cold water' on the 110v plug n' play hot tub haters out there, but we bought one of those $3k plug n' play tubs from Home Depot some years back. I believe it's a 6 or 8 person tub, made by QCA.

It's awesome. Possibly the best investment we've ever made. We use it all the time, year round!

Our issue was that we didn't have enough amps left on our service coming into the home to accommodate the standard 220v hot tub, (and frankly didn't want to pay the $6 or $7k+ prices we were seeing for them, even when they were being advertised as being blowout priced) so we went plug n' play.

The haters out there say you can't run the heat and jets at the same time. Maybe that's true, but we've never noticed. Now to be fair, we're not huge jet users. We mostly like to soak and only use the jets here and there.

When you get in and it's 104° and you turn the jets on for a while (5 or 10 mins), why do you need to also run the heat? The tub's not cooling off in 5 mins. For sure, if you want all the jets going solid for 45 mins, and you have no heat going all that time, the water's probably gonna start cooling down. But for us, that hasn't been an issue.

We've used ours in the minus teens and never had a problem and we consistently use ours at least 2-3 times a week. We stay in for half an hour or so and even in that extreme cold we maybe drop 2-3°in heat in that time.

Having said all that, it's true the plug n' play models have some down sides. For example, you don't get all the bells and whistles some of the more expensive tubs come with. But that's a value for money thing and you have to ask whether you need all those bells and whistles. For example, do you need 8 million jets, each with the power to propel a nuclear submarine? Do you need a TV screen that pops up so you can watch TV while in the tub (and if you do, put a TV outside on your deck). Are you needing a tub for entertaining lots of people and partying in, where you're going to leave the tub uncovered in frigid temperatures for a couple of hours at a time? If so, maybe a plug n' play is not for you. But then again, you're not going to find a 220v that's for you in that price range either.

We wanted a simple, affordable tub ($3 - $5k range) we could all (Mom, Dad and kids) soak in for a while, cover and use again later, with minimal electrical work required (save for adding a dedicated circuit to our breaker box). Ours has been perfect for that.

Like all things, you get what you pay for. If you want to pay $10k+ you can get a monster tub with a shopping list of novel add-ons, more powerful pumps, more jets, etc.

As I say, we LOVE our hot tub. Have had it for probably 5 years and never had a single problem.

One thing I would say is be sure to get the easy lift bracket that holds and stores the cover upright when you're in it, so you can open and close it without having to actually take the cover off and find a place to lay it down.

I've seen people struggle to lift waterlogged covers. Ours just pops up and off easily and slides back, in an upright position behind the tub, while we're in it, which actually serves the dual purpose of providing a privacy wall at the back of the tub as well.

Also, if you look into those QCA tubs from Home Depot, double check delivery, as ours was free to our home at that time.

[canadman]

Hawo everybody. i am in the hot tub and pool industry. the down side to the 110 is the heat and jets can not be on at the same time.

soooooooo

say your 110v hot tub heats up and your ready to jump in....thinking jeeeze why would i buy a 220-240 v hot tub when i saved so much money on the 110 model at a tent sale or (shudder......) or a hardware store

but lets say 1 hour into your hot tub experience ...heck maybe even 30 minutes. even the minute you hop in and turn the jets on .....the heat cannot function. and the tub starts to cool down. i cant even count the amount of times people discover this when its too late because the salesman said "ooooo shoot...the tub will stay hot or warm for hours" "you wont even notice its cooling down"

meanwhile your 220v hottub heats as your in it and feel free to turn on your jets.



one also important aspect of buying a tub at hardware store or tent sale or anyplace that is not a hot tub/poolstore is one that kicks peoples butts on a daily basis. What is this important aspect..well let me tell you...it keeps me employed. in fact in this single aspect i encourage you to save big bucks and purchase a tent or hardware store hotub..but that would be selfish of me....but hey i need a new vehicle


allright...your typical warranty on a tentsale brand or hardware store is when a part of the hotub breaks(heater, pump. heck even a seat cover).. you first had to register the hot tub with that company (no biggie) maybe even buy the warranty (meh a few hundred$$$ right) . you have to take the part out yourself and ship it in/// or hire a local company or tech- to do so. and send it in after you have contact your hot tub company. NO biggie right...but lets say in the time you have owned the tub you have not done water tests at your local pool store and had it officially recorded. (majority hot tub companys will take the pool stores records or word a lot faster and easier then your hand written log.) the tub company can send you your part back and say damagee do due poor water quality. and you cannot argue. and have to purchase the part even though the warranty is still in effect. often you will buy the part and forget the 2 surrounding parts or unions are worn out and might leak only to have to wait for a separate order or jimmy rig other types of unions or start cutting the pipes.

but...lets say you do have records of water quality and they send you a BRAND NEW PART BACk ...yaaaayyyy right<<<???

no. unless you can install it yourself you have to hire a pool/tub tech from a local store to install.and sometimes they need that extra 1/2 hour or hour just to learn your tub and do the repair in the right order.

the common part of those two scenarios is hiring a tech to work on your tub from the very stores you were avoiding because they cost more.

if you shop at the big local pool stores they warranty everything from 1 to 5 years right off at the start no charge... so all you have to do is go in and book a service....within the week s/he shows up ..and that day your hot tub is functional.

yes your average name brand hot tubs range from 5000 to 10000 from a pool store but the personal service and ease of dealing when these things when they break down or get scungy doesn't even compare to having to take the part out yourself and ship it to another country with your fingers crossed. also when they winterize or evacuate the water so mold doesn't grow if you let it sit for a year they guarantee it.

that is just my opinion. but like a i say half the calls are from tent sale victims. or budget hunters.

for some more bucks you can get 5 to 10 years of of a perfectly running tub with a few hiccups

instead of half price and 2-5 years later have to get a new one.

and in the same timeline spend the same or even more from a tent sale.

Sorry to single out this post, and I apologize to the poster for this 'rebuttal', but as an owner of a 110v tub, this seems to be a very biased and self-serving perspective being given. It borders a bit on fear mongering, IMHO.

Our tub came with a great warranty (which, btw, we've never had to use). I've also looked under the hood of our tub and it's VERY easy to get to everything. Not to say we couldn't run into issues, but there's not much in these tubs other than a pump about the size of a loaf of bread, a few intake and outtake hoses, some insulation and a simple electrical box.

Look on Castanet classifieds and you'll find a number of great local techs who can fix whatever goes wrong for a nominal fee.

yes your average name brand hot tubs range from 5000 to 10000 from a pool store but the personal service and ease of dealing when these things when they break down or get scungy doesn't even compare to having to take the part out yourself and ship it to another country with your fingers crossed. also when they winterize or evacuate the water so mold doesn't grow if you let it sit for a year they guarantee it.

vs paying a couple of thousand dollars less for the tub? that's a LOT of service work at $35-$40 an hour for an independent tech. And keep in mind, many of the cheaper tubs ALSO have full parts warranties - ours did.

instead of half price and 2-5 years later have to get a new one.

Sorry again, but this could strike the fear of God into anyone considering purchasing a budget tub, being lead to believe if they do, it's inevitable they're going to have to replace in it a few years, which is ridiculous.

If you take care of it, maintain it, just like you have to maintain any tub, it will last you just like any tub.

Absolutely a better, more expensive tub will often have better parts and features (like better insulation, not just sprayed foam, etc) but that's like anything. You can drive a Ford sedan or you can drive a top of the line Audi and pay considerably more. The Audi's going to have plenty more quality features. But driven right and maintained, the Ford can last just as long as the Audi and do exactly what you bought it for, minus a few creature comforts and frills.

There are a lot of 1960's Mustangs still on the road today. :)

Here's a quick opinion on WHY some claim budget tubs don't last as long and it relates to something someone once told me a about boats.

In the boating world, in the same way higher end hot tub dealers/manufacturers dismiss lower end models, many boat owners frown on more entry level brands like Bayliner (which some haters affectionately refer to as bilgeliners).

Someone once explained to me that there are 2 reasons why you often see more Bayliners in repair shops and in bad shape years down the road than top name boats like Crownline, for example.

1. Because they're entry level and more affordable, there are simply more of them out there and therefore, proportionately more of them in need of repair. For every one Crownline you see sitting at a boat service shop, you'll see 10 Bayliners... but if there are 10 times as many Bayliners out there, that makes sense.

2. Because they're entry level, they're likely owned by first time boat owners, inexperienced in maintaining a boat properly and likely not as concerned about keeping their boats spotless and in good repair the way they would if they were more experienced and owned a more expensive boat.

So, after a few years, after the Bayliner has been run into the ground, not serviced before each winter, left uncovered in the rain and sun, etc. the boat looks and runs like hell. And everyone says "See? I told you those Bayliners don't last!"

Conversely, the boater who pays many tens of thousands more fora higher end brand, who has likely already made all those novice mistakes on his earlier boat(s), is going to invest in a proper cover, baby the hull, winterize the motor each year and service it regularly. So, what do you think his boat is going to look like years later? And conversely, everyone will look at his Crownline and say, "See, those Crownline's sure do last longer and maintain their shape better than those bilgeliners!" :)

If the Bayliner owner were to take care of his boat the same way the Crownline owner does, the Bayliner may run just as well for just as long.

So, the point I'm making is, sure, there are likely more service calls for low end tubs. Likely because they're being used by first time users who haven't cleaned them regularly or properly, don't maintain the chemicals, etc. then is it the brand that has the problem or the user?

We've had our 110v entry level tub for five years and never had a single "hiccup". It's run flawlessly, looks great, water is clean and clear as crystal and the temperature seems to maintain itself long enough whenever we've been in it to keep us satisfied. :)

Just another perspective.

*** JUST ADDED THIS ONE NOTE ***

I don't work for a hot tub company or a retail business selling hot tubs, or, for that matter, any business even remotely related to hot tubs, hot parts or hot tub service. I have no vested interest or agenda behind the opinion I give. I'm merely providing the type of insight to a potential hot tub buyer that I looked for when my wife and I purchased our tub.

[raniculas]

paid by the hour chap. couldn't care less what someone does with there money. just letting people know the daily stuff that goes on based on 100's if not 1000's of calls. not just one review.

in a list of reviews it goes all directions

[canadman]

Not sure if you mean YOU'RE paid by the hour and couldn't care less what people do with their money, or if you mean other people who are paid by the hour couldn't care what people do with their money. My guess is you mean the former.

If that's the case, I find the comment a little troubling as I would be a bit concerned about taking advice on how to make decisions on service and repair work from someone who describes their own service and repair work philosophy as not caring what "people do with their money."

I will say this, I met many people when i was in the market for a hot tub, who clearly also didn't care what people do with their money and were quick to try to get me to part with as much of mine as possible.

I met retail business sales people who swore blindly, unless we spent big dollars on a premium hot tub we'd be wasting our money. (And I always loved how casually they referred to a few thousand more here and there like we were talking about play money. Clearly I don't make as much money as people selling hot tubs)

I also met hot tub service people who spoke in circles, making hot tub repair sound akin to rocket science and insinuating that if I made the 'wrong' decision on my purchase, mechanical repairs would be so costly we'd be virtually mortgaging our home to pay for them, lol.

And naturally, there were always the folks who 'warned us' about settling for anything less than those premium warranties the big expensive tubs came with.

Of course they failed to mention (and this much I DO know from my own work) many retail stores and even manufacturers make more on the warranties than the actual products for which the warranties are written. Quite often the products have small margins wheras the mark ups on warranties can, at times, be huge.

Which may be one reason WHY some of the more budget products are so much less.

Anyway, i'm sure you have a great deal of experience doing what you do and I'm certainly not questioning that. I only speak as an owner who's experience contradicts what you've written. Readers and the OP will interpret all this how ever they choose. I happen to disagree with your opinion and my own experience as an owner of a budget, plug n' play tub supports my reasons why.

But that's what forums are for... For us to all exchange our own unique, and often differing opinions.

[Bpeep]

Our tub came with a great warranty (which, btw, we've never had to use).

If you never had to use it, how do you know it's such a great warranty?

[Bpeep]

Hate to throw 'cold water' on the 110v plug n' play hot tub haters out there, but we bought one of those $3k plug n' play tubs from Home Depot some years back. I believe it's a 6 or 8 person tub, made by QCA.

It's awesome. Possibly the best investment we've ever made. We use it all the time, year round!

Our issue was that we didn't have enough amps left on our service coming into the home to accommodate the standard 220v hot tub,

If you think a hot tub you bought at home cheapo years ago for 3 grand was the best investment you ever made, please tell us what it's worth now. Actually, allow me. Zero. There's dozens at any time around town you can get for free. They're often on Castanet classifieds for free. A good 3k investment made years ago would be worth more than 3 k. It was an emotional investment. But not an investment.
And don't compare hot tubs to boats or old mustangs.
We'll, OK, bayliners coz they're junk, but not real boats or old mustangs.
It's not right.

[canadman]

Lol...

First off, I think most people would get what I meant when I referred to it as the best investment we've ever made.

But clearly, you read things much more literally, so allow me to clarify for your sake.

Our hot tub has provided us five years of tremendous satisfaction at least two to three times a week year round.

We have soothed aching muscles in it, entertained family and friends in it, enjoyed great family time together in it, recovered from post hockey tournament exhaustion in it, soaked while having many late night conversations under the stars with a glass of wine or Baileys in it, shared quiet moments, just my wife and I, in it and so on. I would bet my wife and I have used that tub about 500 times in the 5 years we've had it. Our kids have used it with their friends too.

For the $3k we paid, including shipping, I would say for the pleasure it's brought us and will likely continue to bring us, it's paid us back on our investment many times over.

That is what I meant. No, it is not going to return the FINANCIAL reward something like home equity will, nor will it hold its FINANCIAL value as well as $3k in gold or mutual funds. But I think it was fairly obvious to most people that wasn't what I was referring to.

As for the warranty, you are correct, I've never used it, so I can't tell you how good it is as far as using it is concerned. For that matter nobody can tell you how good any warranty is until you use it.

But again, I see you deal only in literal terms, so I will clarify for you.

Our warranty TERMS are very good and were certainly more than satisfactory to us, especially given that for what we were paying for our tub, we could replace it with another similar tub and still be several thousand dollars ahead of where we would have been had we bought one of those premium models. So all things considered, we felt the deal was a good one and it has proven to be so.

I should add two other things.

Before we bought we also researched forums and read many reviews from owners, many of which, who HAD used the warranty from this company, suggested things went very smoothly when they had to use it and they were pleased with their coverage.

Also, as you may recall if you read the full post I wrote, we had NO CHOICE but to purchase a plug n' play hot tub given the remaining electrical service we could access and this particular tub was one of the only ones we could find, so our choices were limited anyway.

So again, you are correct, I have not USED the warranty, but once again, as I'm sure most will understand, I was comparing the warranty as it is outlined ON PAPER to the same comparisons others make of warranties as they are outlined ON PAPER.

Lastly, as far as comparing hot tubs to boats or cars (also often, as you referred to it, an emotional investment), as it happens, the comparisons were quite appropriate given the context in which they were made, though that may have been lost on you as again, I see you are literal.

So again, allow me to clarify.

You are correct a boat is not the same as a hot tub. Similarly, an automobile is not the same as a hot tub. All three are different items and I apologize if I lead you to think I was suggesting they are all the same thing.

In referring to CARS and BOATS, I was making the reference specifically to illustrate how any reasonably produced item, well taken care of will outlast an item that is abused and neglected.

My reference to a Mustang was to illustrate that a more conventional automobile (as opposed to only VERY very high end automobiles) can also last a long time, look great and run well if take care of, citing the fact that we still see Mustangs on the road 50 years after they rolled off the assembly line.

Again, I think most people would get the parallel and not think I was comparing a Mustang specifically to a hot tub.

As for the boat reference, as someone who has owned and worked on (personally, not professionally) close to twenty of them of all makes from Regals and Wellcrafts to Bayliners and Seaswirls, I do have a little experience here. Though, once again, my reference to Bayliners or any boat make was, like the reference to the Mustang, to point out that any reasonably produced item, taken care of, maintained and used properly can last a long time and perform well.

And re your Bayliner comment specifically, what I believe you mean is that Bayliners are not built to the same quality standards as higher end boats, which is probably something you've HEARD thrown around constantly (which I tried to offer an explanation for in my post). To some extent, that is correct.

Bayliners do not enjoy some of the structural benefits and features of more higher end boats, like fiberglass stringers (vs wood core, fiberglass coated stringers) and that type of thing.

As it happens, I've actually spent some time in factories where boats are made and would be happy to recite the specific ways in which they, and many Brunswick and other boat brands cut corners to save $$$. Coincidentally, some of those other brands are ones people cite as being 'better' quality boats, despite the fact that their hulls and powerplants are often almost identical to Bayliners lol. But there you go.

I actually own a 21.5' Bayliner that is now 23 years old... It is a beautiful boat and has handled rough water that has sent friends of mine in much 'better' boats scrambling for shore.

My hull and deck are still structurally sound and look equal to boats a quarter of their age or newer. Everything still works great and continues to provide supreme enjoyment for myself, my wife and our kids. In fact, it did have a problem a little while back, but not with the boat - with the motor, which is not made by Bayliner.

The boat is still in great shape because I clean it after I use it, I cover it all the time when it's not in use (so water doesn't collect in the hull and rot the stringers and the sun doesn't destroy the interior or fade the pain), I winterize and Summarize it every year, so it's remained a great boat despite being a 'lower end' brand. Again, I know you're literal, but I'm confident others will get the parallel.

Sorry to have confused you with my references. Hopefully the explanation has cleared that up for you.

[raniculas]

the next thread should compare a used car to a second hand grapefruit tree....

boats=hot tubs

[Bsuds]

the next thread should compare a used car to a second hand grapefruit tree....

boats=hot tubs

Just because someone is happy with their grapefruit tree is not a compelling reason to ridicule them.

I know someone else who likes their grapefruit as well and not everyone can afford the larger variety.

[Poindexter]

I can see how a boat, a hot tub, a grapefruit tree or even a vacation can be an investment. All are good for your health, marriage, family and personal motivation. Want to guess how much it costs if any of these start to crumble. Life isn't just about returns money, sometimes it's about returns on time, and for me sitting in the tub talking to my wife with no distraction like the tv is more valuable than interest on a bond.

[canadman]

Here here Poindexter.

I'll let the others post stupid comments in response to mine. The purpose of my original post was to give feedback to the OP who is looking at hot tub options.

I too was in their position once and was overwhelmed by all the different opinions. I was lead by so many with agendas to sell me more than I needed either because in some way they profited from doing so or needed to justify their own reasons for 'overspending' on their own hot tub.

In the end, we got a plug n' play hot tub, despite all the naysayers and we thoroughly enjoy it. We've had no problems with it and we saved about $5,000, which we would have had to pay for one of those blowout sale tubs. Having been in others' tubs costing considerably more than ours, which admittedly did have a few more features than ours and in some cases, more powerful jets, we feel we get pretty much the same enjoyment out of ours that many of our friends and family get out of theirs. Same heat, same water, etc.

That was the point of the post and hopefully it provides the OP another perspective that may be useful and reassuring.

I won't post anymore to this thread as I don't think I have anything to add that will benefit the OP any further. To the OP, all the best with your hot tub search! :)

[raniculas]

there is still good left in this world

[I Think]

Bought a stock watering tank 5 yrs ago, have usually heated it with propane, for two yrs used a WVO heater that I built, cheap to run but a bit of work and you have to watch it.
Now we are building a wood fired heater. Love the tub, 6' diameter 2' deep, no jets, dont like em, they are too noisy and do nothing for us, prefer the still quiet eves spent chatting & soaking.
We have 2 ways to heat a tankless propane heater that we use to fill it, and a propane hotwater tank that we use to warm the water every eve. No filters, no chemicals, we use the water until it is cloudy, 4-7 days, then dump it, rinse and fill it again.
Total cost
Stock tank ...............................................$250 usd.
Propane hot water tank came with the property
garage sale water pump .............................$15
Bosch tankless propane water heater, ...........$250 new in Mexico.
misc plumbing .........................................$50
thermostat snap awitch to control pump ........$7.00 USD
Insulation mostly free + ..............................$40
total........................................................$600 inc exchange and duty.

Have spent many evenings enjoying the quiet soak