Important for all Kelowna drivers

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Omnitheo
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by Omnitheo »

The diagram and red arrows with x’s make it quite clear I believe.
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Omnitheo
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

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I hate you :p
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GordonH
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by GordonH »

oldtrucker wrote:When making a turn like in the diagram, I take all the lanes on both sides of the intersection. Sometimes I will turn my 4 ways on and blow the horn to get people to move out of the way so I can make the corner. If making a right, I get into the left lane and come out of the intersection in the left lane and for a left turn, end up in the right lane.


Since you sound like a transport Semi driver by the description you gave on your turning techniques. Or you are pi :cuss: poor driver of a smaller vehicle i.e pickup truck.
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by my5cents »

KatMeowO wrote:
Quoting the MVA:

Turning at intersections
165 (2) When the driver of a vehicle intends to turn it to the left at an intersection where traffic is permitted to move in both directions on each highway entering the intersection, the driver must

(a) cause the vehicle to approach the intersection in the portion of the right side of the roadway that is nearest the marked centre line, or if there is no marked centre line, then as far as practicable in the portion of the right half of the roadway that is nearest the centre line,
(b) keep the vehicle to the right of the marked centre line or centre line of the roadway, as the case may be, at the place the highway enters the intersection,
(c) after entering the intersection, turn the vehicle to the left so that it leaves the intersection to the right of the marked centre line of the roadway being entered, or if there is no marked centre line then to the right of the centre line of the roadway being entered, and,
(d) when practicable, turn the vehicle in the portion of the intersection to the left of the centre of the intersection.


Very informative but if you want to inform yourself as to where one must turn into you should have highlighted subsection "(c)"
(c) after entering the intersection, turn the vehicle to the left so that it leaves the intersection to the right of the marked centre line of the roadway being entered, or if there is no marked centre line then to the right of the centre line of the roadway being entered,

In other words, right of the centre of the road ANYWHERE RIGHT OF CENTRE, the first lane, the second, the third,,,,,,,,

KL3-Something, is of course 100% correct, and that's understandable, it's his job.

This act of turning left onto a two way street, into the lane closest to the centre has been discussed ad nauseam. Unlike so many laws that people are ignorant in NOT knowing they are illegal this is one law that people are ignorant of by thinking that it is illegal, when it is not.

The other problem is, "good practice" gets confused with "what's illegal".

It is of course good practice to turn into the closest lane and then signal to enter the lane on the right etc., but it is not the law.

The opposite of this (an act that is illegal that many aren't completely aware is illegal) is passing on the right.

You are driving on a street that only has one lane in each direction. There is no marked lanes in the direction you are travelling, just the centre line. You arrive at an intersection controlled by a traffic light, you are the third car in line. The first car has his left turn signal on, the second, the one in front of you, does not. There is a lengthy delay because of heavy approaching traffic, and the left turn vehicle can't complete the turn for quite a while. Can you pass, on the right, the car in front of you that is not turning but isn't going around the left turn vehicle ? What if both vehicles have their left turn signal on ?
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Glacier
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by Glacier »

KL3-Something wrote:The right turn as shown in the image is also the lawful way to make the turn.

But as an FYI, there is no requirement under the Motor Vehicle Act to make the left turn as in the diagram. There is nothing unlawful about turning directly into the far lane when turning left.

WUT? I don't think so. Let me rotate to show you why....

TurningPathzb.jpg
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by my5cents »

Glacier wrote:WUT? I don't think so. Let me rotate to show you why....


East, West, North or South. Makes no difference

Yup, it's the truth. If the MVA doesn't say it, it isn't illegal, and the MVA doesn't say it's illegal (Sec 165(2)(b)

There's been many discussion about it. Nobody, I don't think, is saying it's a good idea and a safe way to drive, but it's legal.

There are lots of strange motor vehicle laws, or non-laws.

It's illegal to change lanes without signalling, no matter if traffic may be affected or not.

You don't have to signal a turn unless "traffic may be affected"

The legality of a "crosswalk" is the exact same if it is marked or unmarked. (you always hear the media spout off about crossing at "marked crosswalk"), if you are crossing at an intersection it doesn't matter a hill of beans if there are signs or paint on the roadway or not. A vehicle has the same legal requirement and the pedestrian has the same.
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Omnitheo
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by Omnitheo »

Turning to the right of the center lane literally means that lane. It’s not worded “turn into any one right of the center line” the graphic details it quite clearly. Stop making illegal turns and endangering other drivers.

If you’re incapable of turning into the proper lane, you are a bad driver. Furthermore, if you can’t turn into the close lane on a 2 lane street, what happens when you need to turn into a one lane street? Do you swerve into the bike lane? Into the sidewalk?
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-d ... e27292018/

When you're turning right, you don't have the right to turn into the left lane, police say.

"In simple terms, you turn right into the right lane only, and left in to the left lane only," says Toronto police traffic services Const. Clint Stibbe. "The only (legal) exception for a vehicle making a right turn into another lane has to do with a transport trailer, if they have to make a wide turn."

Section 141 of Ontario's Highway Traffic Act (HTA) spells out the rules for turns.

It says a driver turning right must turn into "the right-hand lane of the intersecting highway where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway being entered."

In other words, stay in your lane — and if there isn't one, keep to the right.

Left turns are the same — unless signs or markings tell you otherwise, turn into the far left lane.

If you're on a road that allows turns from multiple lanes, you stay in the lane you started in — unless there are signs indicating otherwise.

"The vast majority of drivers make turns improperly," Stibbe says. "It's habitual — if you follow a driver who's just made an improper turn, you'll see they make all their turns improperly."

If you get caught making an improper turn in Ontario, it's two demerits and a $110 fine.

The rules are similar in every province. Most fines are in the same range as Ontario. Not all provinces give demerits for it. For example, in B.C. turning into the wrong lane gets you a $109 fine and three demerits. In Newfoundland, the minimum fine is $100 and no demerits.

Okay, but what if you're making a right turn into the left lane for a good reason?

Maybe you know that right lane is ending up ahead. Or it's jammed with traffic. Or some jerk has parked his car there even though it's rush hour.

Too bad, says Stibbe.

"You make the lane change after you complete the turn," Stibbe says.

If you're turning left into the far left lane and you get hit by a car trying to turn right into that lane, you shouldn't be found at fault, Stibbe says.


But what do the police know? I’m sure they appreciate you correcting them on traffic laws when you get pulled over.
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by my5cents »

Omnitheo wrote:https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/is-it-illegal-to-make-a-right-turn-into-the-left-lane/article27292018/

When you're turning right, you don't have the right to turn into the left lane, police say.

"In simple terms, you turn right into the right lane only, and left in to the left lane only," says Toronto police traffic services Const. Clint Stibbe. "The only (legal) exception for a vehicle making a right turn into another lane has to do with a transport trailer, if they have to make a wide turn."

Section 141 of Ontario's Highway Traffic Act (HTA) spells out the rules for turns.

It says a driver turning right must turn into "the right-hand lane of the intersecting highway where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway being entered."

In other words, stay in your lane — and if there isn't one, keep to the right.

Left turns are the same — unless signs or markings tell you otherwise, turn into the far left lane.

If you're on a road that allows turns from multiple lanes, you stay in the lane you started in — unless there are signs indicating otherwise.

"The vast majority of drivers make turns improperly," Stibbe says. "It's habitual — if you follow a driver who's just made an improper turn, you'll see they make all their turns improperly."

If you get caught making an improper turn in Ontario, it's two demerits and a $110 fine.

The rules are similar in every province. Most fines are in the same range as Ontario. Not all provinces give demerits for it. For example, in B.C. turning into the wrong lane gets you a $109 fine and three demerits. In Newfoundland, the minimum fine is $100 and no demerits.

Okay, but what if you're making a right turn into the left lane for a good reason?

Maybe you know that right lane is ending up ahead. Or it's jammed with traffic. Or some jerk has parked his car there even though it's rush hour.

Too bad, says Stibbe.

"You make the lane change after you complete the turn," Stibbe says.

If you're turning left into the far left lane and you get hit by a car trying to turn right into that lane, you shouldn't be found at fault, Stibbe says.


But what do the police know? I’m sure they appreciate you correcting them on traffic laws when you get pulled over.


The Ontario Highway Traffic Act, is a provincial statute, just like our Motor Vehicle Act is. Provincial laws are not universal across Canada.

There are many variations in each provincial law, things that are illegal in one province are legal in another and visa versa.

Nothing in the Motor Vehicle Act of BC is assumed, it is specific.

You'll note that in Sec 165(2)(a), where they apparently want motorists to be in the left most lane the MVA states :

    "cause the vehicle to approach the intersection in the portion of the right side of the roadway that is nearest the marked centre line, or if there is no marked centre line, then as far as practicable in the portion of the right half of the roadway that is nearest the centre line"

Very explicit as to where a vehicle must be.

In subsection 165(2)(c) (the BC law that talks about where a vehicle should be on completing a left turn) the BC MVA only states :

"after entering the intersection, turn the vehicle to the left so that it leaves the intersection to the right of the marked centre line of the roadway being entered, or if there is no marked centre line then to the right of the centre line of the roadway being entered,"

"to the right of the centre line", nothing about "the lane nearest the marked centre line"

I know many have believed that it was illegal to not have turned into the lane closest to the centre line, but it simply isn't. It's a good idea, it's good practice and likely if you were taking a driver's test you would be marked for not doing so, but many things in the driving test that are deemed wrong, are not actually illegal.
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by Bpeep »

Considering that the majority of collisions happen at intersections (many very likely coz of peeps turning into any lane they wish) I'm surprised icbc hasn't addressed this very issue and caused change in the mva.
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spooker
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by spooker »

After reading in the Globe & Mail article the comment about getting a $109 fine in BC

The rules are similar in every province. Most fines are in the same range as Ontario. Not all provinces give demerits for it. For example, in B.C. turning into the wrong lane gets you a $109 fine and three demerits. In Newfoundland, the minimum fine is $100 and no demerits.


I had to go check this out ... but could not find a fine matching this ... the closest was "Left turn from wrong lane" for $109 ...
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by KL3-Something »

Glacier wrote:
KL3-Something wrote:The right turn as shown in the image is also the lawful way to make the turn.

But as an FYI, there is no requirement under the Motor Vehicle Act to make the left turn as in the diagram. There is nothing unlawful about turning directly into the far lane when turning left.

WUT? I don't think so. Let me rotate to show you why....

TurningPathzb.jpg



Still not lawfully required. Blue car has to wait for red car to make it's turn if on a green light (that's a lawful requirement). But once the intersection is clear the blue car can turn directly into the right lane legally.

I'm not saying that turning into the left lane isn't what the blue car should do. Just that it isn't legally required to do so.
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by KL3-Something »

Omnitheo wrote:https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/is-it-illegal-to-make-a-right-turn-into-the-left-lane/article27292018/

When you're turning right, you don't have the right to turn into the left lane, police say.

"In simple terms, you turn right into the right lane only, and left in to the left lane only," says Toronto police traffic services Const. Clint Stibbe. "The only (legal) exception for a vehicle making a right turn into another lane has to do with a transport trailer, if they have to make a wide turn."

Section 141 of Ontario's Highway Traffic Act (HTA) spells out the rules for turns.

It says a driver turning right must turn into "the right-hand lane of the intersecting highway where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway being entered."

In other words, stay in your lane — and if there isn't one, keep to the right.

Left turns are the same — unless signs or markings tell you otherwise, turn into the far left lane.

If you're on a road that allows turns from multiple lanes, you stay in the lane you started in — unless there are signs indicating otherwise.

"The vast majority of drivers make turns improperly," Stibbe says. "It's habitual — if you follow a driver who's just made an improper turn, you'll see they make all their turns improperly."

If you get caught making an improper turn in Ontario, it's two demerits and a $110 fine.

The rules are similar in every province. Most fines are in the same range as Ontario. Not all provinces give demerits for it. For example, in B.C. turning into the wrong lane gets you a $109 fine and three demerits. In Newfoundland, the minimum fine is $100 and no demerits.

Okay, but what if you're making a right turn into the left lane for a good reason?

Maybe you know that right lane is ending up ahead. Or it's jammed with traffic. Or some jerk has parked his car there even though it's rush hour.

Too bad, says Stibbe.

"You make the lane change after you complete the turn," Stibbe says.

If you're turning left into the far left lane and you get hit by a car trying to turn right into that lane, you shouldn't be found at fault, Stibbe says.


But what do the police know? I’m sure they appreciate you correcting them on traffic laws when you get pulled over.


Different province. Different laws.
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Just to be clear: The opinions expressed above are mine and do not represent those of any other person, class of persons or organization.
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Bpeep
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by Bpeep »

KL3-Something wrote:

Still not lawfully required. Blue car has to wait for red car to make it's turn if on a green light (that's a lawful requirement). But once the intersection is clear the blue car can turn directly into the right lane legally.

I'm not saying that turning into the left lane isn't what the blue car should do. Just that it isn't legally required to do so.


No way huh. I've always fancied myself to be a knowledgeable driver, but I woulda never guessed this.
I don't necessarily agree with it, but it's good to know.

I appreciate your contributions to this forum.
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Glacier
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Re: Important for all Kelowna drivers

Post by Glacier »

What if the blue car has an advance green? Or the red car is in a right-turn lane only. I see it all the time, and I even take part. You get two cars turning at the same time. More efficient for sure. I guess you're saying the blue car can legally just sit and wait holding up traffic behind him, or he can do the etiquette thing by using the inside lane?
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