"Crotch Rockets" an alternate opinion

[Jo]

Find some facts about how many bikes that are crashed are sportbikes as opposed to cruisers and I will listen to your opinion.

http://www.insurance-canada.ca/claims/c ... hs-709.php

[mekathy]

The guys that are doing the wheelies and stunting in high traffic areas are not the same bunch that are riding Westside road. Somehow they are getting grouped together because people refuse to read the topic of this thread.

So you are the now the traffic monitor of Westside Road..
You know for a fact that the riders on Westside Road are not also stunting in high traffic areas. Wow talk about uneducated guessing. We drive Westside Road quite often in the summer and have seen some responsible riders, sport and touring bikes alike, but have seen the yahoos on crotch rockets that obviously have a chip on their shoulder and something to prove. They are the ones you should be taking your frustation out on, as there negative habits are alot more noticeable than the responsible drivers.

[ddixson]

Although the % of crashes per insured supersport/Sport/unclad sport is higher then the cruiser/touring/other, there are still more deaths and accidents occuring on cruiser/touring/other.

Total number of deaths for supersport/Sport/unclad sport was 1558.

Total number of deaths for cruiser/touring/other was 2490.

So this would tell me that there is a larger number of dangerous "cruisers" on the road then "crotch rockets".

62% of deaths were NOT on "crotch rockets".

[Jo]

A quote from the article: "In an Institute analysis of deaths per 10,000 registered motorcycles, supersport drivers had a death rate of 22.6 in 2000 and 22.5 in 2005. Sport and unclad sport bikes, which are similar to supersports, had the next highest death rates at 10.8 for 2000 and 10.7 for 2005. Death rates for other types of motorcycles were much lower."

[ddixson]

The guys that are doing the wheelies and stunting in high traffic areas are not the same bunch that are riding Westside road. Somehow they are getting grouped together because people refuse to read the topic of this thread.

So you are the now the traffic monitor of Westside Road..
You know for a fact that the riders on Westside Road are not also stunting in high traffic areas. Wow talk about uneducated guessing. We drive Westside Road quite often in the summer and have seen some responsible riders, sport and touring bikes alike, but have seen the yahoos on crotch rockets that obviously have a chip on their shoulder and something to prove. They are the ones you should be taking your frustation out on, as there negative habits are alot more noticeable than the responsible drivers.

First of all Westside Rd. is not a high traffic area. Harvey is. Although you have said that you have seen responsible riders on there, we are all getting lumped together. This is what has upset people who ride that road and are responsible.

[ddixson]

A quote from the article: "In an Institute analysis of deaths per 10,000 registered motorcycles, supersport drivers had a death rate of 22.6 in 2000 and 22.5 in 2005. Sport and unclad sport bikes, which are similar to supersports, had the next highest death rates at 10.8 for 2000 and 10.7 for 2005. Death rates for other types of motorcycles were much lower."

Yes and as I said the percentage of deaths per insured vehicle is higher on a "crotch rocket", there are a higher number of dangerous "cruisers" on the road.

[mekathy]

The guys that are doing the wheelies and stunting in high traffic areas are not the same bunch that are riding Westside road. Somehow they are getting grouped together because people refuse to read the topic of this thread.

So you are the now the traffic monitor of Westside Road..
You know for a fact that the riders on Westside Road are not also stunting in high traffic areas. Wow talk about uneducated guessing. We drive Westside Road quite often in the summer and have seen some responsible riders, sport and touring bikes alike, but have seen the yahoos on crotch rockets that obviously have a chip on their shoulder and something to prove. They are the ones you should be taking your frustation out on, as there negative habits are alot more noticeable than the responsible drivers.

First of all Westside Rd. is not a high traffic area. Harvey is. Although you have said that you have seen responsible riders on there, we are all getting lumped together. This is what has upset people who ride that road and are responsible.

Please read the post and perhaps try and absorb it before you post. I did not say that Westside road is a high traffic area. I simply said that there is no way that you can tell me that the same riders that are being idiots in high traffic areas are not driving on Westside road..

[bedford90]

Also the sportbike community varies widely based on location. Arlington isn't exactly next door and their data will therefore not be as applicable. Search hard enough anywhere and you'll find data to argue any point of view. My main hope is that people realize that just because a person is on a sport motorcylce doesn't mean they're a hooligan. Stop generalizing please. Also when was the last time you saw a guy ripping alone in flip flops, shorts and no shirt with only a helmet for protection on Westside road, now when was the last time you saw that down town? Many of the riders lacking gear and common sense who bought a sport motorcycle for the image rather than a love for the activity are also less experienced and will avoid technically challenging roads where there aren't "babes" to impress.

[ddixson]

The guys that are doing the wheelies and stunting in high traffic areas are not the same bunch that are riding Westside road. Somehow they are getting grouped together because people refuse to read the topic of this thread.

So you are the now the traffic monitor of Westside Road..
You know for a fact that the riders on Westside Road are not also stunting in high traffic areas. Wow talk about uneducated guessing. We drive Westside Road quite often in the summer and have seen some responsible riders, sport and touring bikes alike, but have seen the yahoos on crotch rockets that obviously have a chip on their shoulder and something to prove. They are the ones you should be taking your frustation out on, as there negative habits are alot more noticeable than the responsible drivers.

First of all Westside Rd. is not a high traffic area. Harvey is. Although you have said that you have seen responsible riders on there, we are all getting lumped together. This is what has upset people who ride that road and are responsible.

Please read the post and perhaps try and absorb it before you post. I did not say that Westside road is a high traffic area. I simply said that there is no way that you can tell me that the same riders that are being idiots in high traffic areas are not driving on Westside road..

They are not stunting in a high traffic area if they are on Westside road. That was the point that I was trying to make in the previous post, not that it's not the same people. I do know a large number of "crotch rocket" riders and there are 2 groups of them, stunters and those who ride twisty roads. There are very few stunters that I know that ride Westside road.

*edit* there is one more type as reminded by bedford. There are those that buy bikes to look good, these ppl ride with no gear and generally really don't know how to ride well and generally stay in areas where they can be seen on their bikes.

[2>4]

I think a point that really hasn't been covered is..."so what"

Ok, even if sport bike riders are fast and aggressive and speed..."so what"

1. If a motorcycle rider (because I know it isn't just sport bikers that frequent westside road) were to crash what is the probability that they injure or kill another road user?

2. If a motorcycle rider passes another road user what is the probability that the motorcyclist causes a crash?

3. Do fast moving motorcycles that pass slower road users actually cause a noticeable increase in crashes, and related injuries or deaths?

I don't have any FACTS on these points...do you?

If you do, please share. If you don't then please continue to debate on, but do realize that your discussions will be somewhat futile...

The thing about living in our society is that people are allowed to endanger themselves. If they are endangering others then we have cause to step in, but we can't restrict motorcycle riders from riding because they are endangering themselves...that is their choice!

[dandynick5]

Find some facts about how many bikes that are crashed are sportbikes as opposed to cruisers and I will listen to your opinion.

http://www.insurance-canada.ca/claims/c ... hs-709.php

Thanks for the link Jo. And for those who don't know, driving in Virginia is very similar to driving through the Kootenays or Westside road. The fact that Arlington is not Westside road is irrelevant. Look for the stats anywhere in North America and there will be enough of a pattern to support the theme of the link you provided.

[dandynick5]

And if anyone has a write off that fell over while stopped, I know quite a few bikers who would be glad to look at buying it and putting it back on the road. But I'm willing to bet that if someone dropped their bike and scratched the frame and/or broke some plastics, they'd keep it and keep riding it. Unless they had a disposable income for a new bike or increased premiums.

[ddixson]

Find some facts about how many bikes that are crashed are sportbikes as opposed to cruisers and I will listen to your opinion.

http://www.insurance-canada.ca/claims/c ... hs-709.php

Thanks for the link Jo. And for those who don't know, driving in Virginia is very similar to driving through the Kootenays or Westside road. The fact that Arlington is not Westside road is irrelevant. Look for the stats anywhere in North America and there will be enough of a pattern to support the theme of the link you provided.

Yes and I'm sure those patterns will all show that there are more dangerous "cruiser" on the road then "crotch rockets"

[mekathy]

I think a point that really hasn't been covered is..."so what"

Ok, even if sport bike riders are fast and aggressive and speed..."so what"

1. If a motorcycle rider (because I know it isn't just sport bikers that frequent westside road) were to crash what is the probability that they injure or kill another road user?

2. If a motorcycle rider passes another road user what is the probability that the motorcyclist causes a crash?

3. Do fast moving motorcycles that pass slower road users actually cause a noticeable increase in crashes, and related injuries or deaths?

I don't have any FACTS on these points...do you?

If you do, please share. If you don't then please continue to debate on, but do realize that your discussions will be somewhat futile...
The thing about living in our society is that people are allowed to endanger themselves. If they are endangering others then we have cause to step in, but we can't restrict motorcycle riders from riding because they are endangering themselves...that is their choice!

Anyone that is driving erratic or dangerously is a threat to others on a roadway. If I have to slam on my brakes because some moron dumps his bike while attempting a wheelie, he has now endangered my safety. If the idiot that is driving at an excessive speed, weaving through traffic dumps his bike , I have once again been forced to slam on my brakes. Just last summer a crotch rocket rider and a truck had a run in, can't remember all the facts but the witnesses said the young driver, who luckily survived, caused the crash when he lost control of the bike that was speeding down hwy 97.

[ddixson]

And if anyone has a write off that fell over while stopped, I know quite a few bikers who would be glad to look at buying it and putting it back on the road. But I'm willing to bet that if someone dropped their bike and scratched the frame and/or broke some plastics, they'd keep it and keep riding it. Unless they had a disposable income for a new bike or increased premiums.

Usually the costs of repairing the bike is higher then ICBC is willing to spend on it. There are several people who do buy wrecked bikes and repair them. The price of a new set of plastics for a bike is around $5000 from a dealer. These are the prices that ICBC has to use. Also in a motorcycle accident the frame must be deemed straight before it can be put back on the road. In all reality it would cost more to replace the cosmetic features on a bike then to actually buy the bike new. It is also the same things with cars that your selling value is substantially lowered after your bike or vehicle has an accident on it and most people don't want them back if ICBC is willing to replace it.