Traffic in the Mission

[snohman]

then blame the city for not doing their job

It isn't the City demanding that Lakeshore and Gordon be four laned for the convenience of Kettle Valley, Southridge and the Ponds. That is why I blame the upper Mission residents. They made their bed, they can lie in it. Just because they choose to live in a screwed up badly planned neighbourhood located in the middle of nowhere gives them zero right to wreck the rest of the city.

Don't worry your little head about it though, plans are underway to pave more of our farmland to give a third route out to Casorso Road anyways. The City already caved to the whims of the Upper Mission residents and delayed a bunch of higher priority road improvements to advance the South Perimeter Road.

[Atomoa]

Restrictive zoning is what caused this problem and goes hand in hand with suburbia. Once upon a time, cities used to have neighbourhood stores within walking distance of most homes, and a wider mix of land uses coexisting. This is still the case in older cities built before cars. Those areas that remain are among the most desirable and expensive real estate in North America.

I agree they need to put a grocery store and such up the hill.

What I was referring to is all the "consulting/internet/basement" dwelling businesses that do nothing to service the residents of the neighbourhood but actually bring in commercial, consumer and business traffic into residential neighbourhoods.

In this "sharing economy" where everyone needs to be working full time jobs we've managed to turn single family homes where people live into mini malls. A single house has a single family in it with their associated 3-4 cars, the income generating rental suite in the basement has another car or two and Mom's Etsy business has clients and couriers stopping by the house on a daily basis.

One house - 4 to 7 cars - plus commercial traffic.

[LTD]

good it needs to be done DUE TO LACK OF PLANNING ON THE CITYS PART which has absolutely nothing to do with residents living there oh and I'm not worried about a thing I don't live out there

[snohman]

What I was referring to is all the "consulting/internet/basement" dwelling businesses that do nothing to service the residents of the neighbourhood but actually bring in commercial, consumer and business traffic into residential neighbourhoods.

Instead, try to think of every basement business as one less commuter clogging the roads during the peak hours. The deliveries and other traffic mostly occur during the off-peak times when the roads have some surplus capacity.

[Atomoa]

Instead, try to think of every basement business as one less commuter clogging the roads during the peak hours. The deliveries and other traffic most occur during the off-peak times when the roads have some surplus capacity.

That business owner is making multiple car trips throughout the day. This is why we have residential and commercial zoning laws. Might as well just blend them both together.

I didn't know we limited this discussion to peak times. I'm talking about actual number of car trips total and overall traffic flow.

[snohman]

I didn't know we limited this discussion to peak times. I'm talking about actual number of car trips total and overall traffic flow.

Nothing matters as much as peaks. Go look at Figure 2.1 in Section 2.1 of this report. Every trip shifted to off-peak periods improves overall traffic flow, on average, for everyone, since congestion happens at peaks. Sure, the roads might not be completely empty at 10:30am, but you probably don't see traffic jams at those times either. Time-shifting is not as good as eliminating trips, but it's the next best thing.

[LTD]

most folks cant roll into work at 10 am and keep their job otherwise its a great plan

[Atomoa]

Time-shifting is not as good as eliminating trips, but it's the next best thing.

I'm trying to eliminate trips all together.

There are more pressing negative effects to our society and environment caused by cars zipping up and down the hill all day than the emotional dissatisfaction of a soccer mom.

[lightspeed]

4 lanes on lakeshore and Gordon are exactly what need to happen and exactly what will happen in time.

I can't see it happening.

Kind of like your reference to what happens elsewhere in the world, nobody in the rest of Kelowna cares if the kept princesses of the Upper Mission have to take 4 hours out of their busy day to roundtrip to Starbucks for the latest yick yack about other peoples business and an overpriced calorie laden coffee.

[dodgerdodge]

Your solution is to pave a four lane highway through long-established neighbourhoods along Lakeshore and Gordon just so that people who moved far up the hillsides can drive even more often? Nice sense of entitlement you have there - the residents in those neighbourhoods simply don't matter because they are not part of the self-elected elite who live in Kettle Valley?

Choosing to live in the sticks was a decision made by every person who moved up there. These hillside dwellers have no right to rip up other neighbourhoods to try and erase the consequences of their poor choices. Building more roads just creates more traffic anyways, so a different approach is needed.

Self elected elite???? I think your suggestion that its all the fault of these awful Kettle Valley residents is plain odd to say the least.
Fact: City of Kelowna approved ALL building up there (well apart from Kelowna Mountain but lets not go there)
Fact: Gordon Drive and Lakeshore are the major and only routes to and from
Fact: Anyone buying a home on Gordon or Lakeshore in last few years would know its a main traffic route, often congested if they had researched it
Fact: The more homes you build, the more traffic you create regardless how many bike lanes and footpaths you put in so eventually something has to give.
Clearly they aren't going to start knocking houses down and there are still many many areas up there that are being built on so either we look forward to total gridlock in "x" number of years or we address the road issue soon

I don't live there, i don't particularly want to live there and i really don't care about the issues that deeply but you cannot sit back and blame the residents for poor planning and over zealous sales agents promising what hasn't happened. The new school was over capacity before it opened and how many more homes have been built since that opened?

[dodgerdodge]

How about a vehicle cap? Only 2 cars per household in communities up the hill.

Why should my taxes have to pay for road upgrades to accommodate people who have car addictions?

We could also stop turning residential zones into commercial areas by not allowing home based businesses in such high numbers in residential areas.

We could also ban parents from picking up their kids at schools in their cars. No more chauffeur service.

We could also stop secondary suites. How would 2 cars per household work for all those suites. The high number of single family homes being built up there is one thing but add a secondary suite legal or otherwise and you pretty much double the traffic coming up and down.

[Atomoa]

We could also stop secondary suites. How would 2 cars per household work for all those suites. The high number of single family homes being built up there is one thing but add a secondary suite legal or otherwise and you pretty much double the traffic coming up and down.

Correct.

There are lots of things that can be done before 4 laning or tearing down agricultural land to build roads occurs.

[Even Steven]

If you choose to live in Mission, you choose to sit in traffic twice a day. We keep digging deeper and deeper up the hills, of course there will be traffic. With more residential housing coming online it's only guaranteed. New 2,600 units development at KLO and Pandosy, what do you think will happen? More traffic. Just the realities of life.

[dodgerdodge]

If you choose to live in Mission, you choose to sit in traffic twice a day. We keep digging deeper and deeper up the hills, of course there will be traffic. With more residential housing coming online it's only guaranteed. New 2,600 units development at KLO and Pandosy, what do you think will happen? More traffic. Just the realities of life.

Same if you choose to live in West Kelowna though. Huge amount of development over last 8 years or so but no real break for the increased traffic volumes it has generated. Problem is many people chose to live on the Westside many years back before all this extra traffic and i'm sure same goes for many Kettle Valley residents. Did they realise when they bought 10 years ago that there would be so many extra new homes cut into the hillside with no real improvements to road network or shopping facilities?
Not always easy to just sell up and move somewhere else.

[Y-Wine]

Lack off planning on your part.
Does not constitute an emergency on my part.

Plan/Plan/and Plan just like you do when you go to your 3rd world vacation place once a year and pay 1st word prices in your all inclusive resort. But let me guess. You've travelled the world so much you have all the answers. That's why you bought at the end of a dead end road.