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Speed Cameras

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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby Dizzy1 » Jul 1st, 2017, 2:48 pm

Poindexter wrote:
Our bridge is a perfect example of what you just described. People know they can't pull you over so it's become the Okanagan autobahn. A speed camera would have an immediate impact there.

That's a perfect example of a cash grab scenario- there is no reason the speed limit shouldn't be 80 kmh
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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby neilsimon » Jul 1st, 2017, 3:03 pm

LTD wrote:maybe you guys should move to Europe then, just remember they think driving on the wrong side of the road makes sense to :up:

While true that they drive on the wrong side of the road, so do we. It's the UK and Ireland (small part of Europe), they drive on the right side of the road, which is, of course, the left side. They are significantly safer drivers than we are. Maybe they know something we don't.
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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby Dizzy1 » Jul 1st, 2017, 3:08 pm

neilsimon wrote: They are significantly safer drivers than we are. Maybe they know something we don't.

They do - mandatory drivers training, mandatory vehicle inspections and clear traffic laws - at least in most of Europe.
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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby neilsimon » Jul 1st, 2017, 3:15 pm

jimmy4321 wrote:If it's illegal than who cares if it's a cash grab?

True, maybe it's about time we revised speed limits to match the reality of the situation (they are often way below the speed someone could, under good conditions, safely driver through an area) and instead the cops should start going after people for dangerous driving when they drive faster than the conditions safely allow, or without due care and attention, or tailgating, etc. Maybe even do away with speed limits on some safer faster roads.
Why does a guy driving 30 or 40km/h over the speed limit need notice that there's a photo radar?

Because it will slow them down? Isn't that the intention?
Would you object to one in school zones?

Yes, lets think of the children. But, what if a particular school zone was already one of the safest places on the road? Wouldn't it make sense to target a more dangerous area and potentially save lives in doing so?
Why do people think the the whole cat & mouse thing is some given right?

Because speed limits are a very poor mechanism for improving road safety and any half competent driver knows this. The most dangerous behaviours on the road are rarely speeding, but the majority of road safety enforcement surrounds speed. We have found a simple to measure metric and use it to determine safety of driving, rather than attempt to actually measure how safe someone is driving. Essentially, we have fallen into a McNamara fallacy. As a road user, in my mind, the biggest risks I experience on a frequent basis surround people not paying attention while they drive, tailgating, left-lane hogging, poorly secured loads, breaking traffic lights, dangerously modified trucks, etc. Speeding is actually well down the list of dangerous behaviours and while speed can be added to any of these behaviours, it is more effective to target the root cause.

How about better driver training, more stringent testing and frequent retesting? I suspect that these would have a far greater impact on road safety than any amount of speed cameras.
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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby LTD » Jul 1st, 2017, 3:21 pm

neilsimon wrote:
LTD wrote:maybe you guys should move to Europe then, just remember they think driving on the wrong side of the road makes sense to :up:

While true that they drive on the wrong side of the road, so do we. It's the UK and Ireland (small part of Europe), they drive on the right side of the road, which is, of course, the left side. They are significantly safer drivers than we are. Maybe they know something we don't.

safer drivers that's a laugh might be time to get out of the sun for a while
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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby neilsimon » Jul 1st, 2017, 3:35 pm

LTD wrote:...
safer drivers that's a laugh might be time to get out of the sun for a while

Look at the stats if you don't believe me. Canada has 6 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants per year, or 6.2 per billion vehicle-km. The UK has 2.9 and 3.6 and Ireland has 4.1 and 3.9. By these measures, they are significantly safer. Canada has about 50% more road deaths than Ireland by both metrics. Our road death rates are less of a laughing matter than you might think.

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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby What_the » Jul 1st, 2017, 3:39 pm

For me, all I know for sure, is that the most significant lessons from 28 years of driving are the ones that scared the poo out of me and the adrenaline shots, not a fine.

I maintain the road test should include a closed course track with wet and dry weather conditions, an automated animal/child running in front, simulations on track of distracted driving, etc. Think in the vein of mythbusters (that episode) and Canada's worst driver.
Experiencing these things is sort of like the concept of- a bird in hand is worth two in the Bush.
Would so rather be over educated that a knuckle dragging Neanderthal bereft of critical thought and imagination. Although in the case of Neanderthals, that's quite the insult.

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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby johnny24 » Jul 1st, 2017, 4:09 pm

neilsimon wrote:While true that they drive on the wrong side of the road, so do we. It's the UK and Ireland (small part of Europe), they drive on the right side of the road, which is, of course, the left side. They are significantly safer drivers than we are. Maybe they know something we don't.


Why do all the euros move here and proceed to tell us day after day about how much better everything is in Europe? Doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby Dizzy1 » Jul 1st, 2017, 4:20 pm

johnny24 wrote:
Why do all the euros move here and proceed to tell us day after day about how much better everything is in Europe? Doesn't make any sense.

In their defence- it takes them a couple of years before they realize *bleep* in disbelief at how the simplest traffic situations are absolute ridiculous here.
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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby neilsimon » Jul 1st, 2017, 4:25 pm

Dizzy1 wrote:...
They do - mandatory drivers training, mandatory vehicle inspections and clear traffic laws - at least in most of Europe.

Strangely, Canada is actually quite average when compared with EU countries in terms of road safety. IIRC, Ireland and the UK have very similar training requirements, but the standard of the driving test is much higher. I also suspect that their roads are better engineered. Additionally, they tend to drive smaller vehicles and require additional training and testing to drive heavier vehicles over 3500kg GVW. Their insurance systems also encourage inexperienced drivers to drive cars less likely to get in an accident and less likely to do damage when they do, often making faster or heavier car prohibitively expensive to insure for unproven drivers.
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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby neilsimon » Jul 1st, 2017, 4:29 pm

johnny24 wrote:...
Why do all the euros move here and proceed to tell us day after day about how much better everything is in Europe? Doesn't make any sense.

Not everything is better there, but certainly driving is better in places. I certainly wouldn't wish the standards of some EU countries driving on Canada, but it is a fool who thinks that their country could not learn from how others do things better. Canada should look to the proven best practices elsewhere and implement similar. That means looking to various European countries for some things and elsewhere for others.

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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby What_the » Jul 1st, 2017, 5:19 pm

NS wrote: that their roads are better engineered

We at least had the benefit of building cities around arterial roads. If one has been to Europe, you'll know what I'm saying.
Would so rather be over educated that a knuckle dragging Neanderthal bereft of critical thought and imagination. Although in the case of Neanderthals, that's quite the insult.

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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby lightspeed » Jul 1st, 2017, 5:32 pm

neilsimon wrote:
Dizzy1 wrote:...
They do - mandatory drivers training, mandatory vehicle inspections and clear traffic laws - at least in most of Europe.

Strangely, Canada is actually quite average when compared with EU countries in terms of road safety. IIRC, Ireland and the UK have very similar training requirements, but the standard of the driving test is much higher. I also suspect that their roads are better engineered. Additionally, they tend to drive smaller vehicles and require additional training and testing to drive heavier vehicles over 3500kg GVW. Their insurance systems also encourage inexperienced drivers to drive cars less likely to get in an accident and less likely to do damage when they do, often making faster or heavier car prohibitively expensive to insure for unproven drivers.



Same with bike licensing and insurance. Progressive.
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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby lightspeed » Jul 1st, 2017, 5:34 pm

What_the wrote:For me, all I know for sure, is that the most significant lessons from 28 years of driving are the ones that scared the poo out of me and the adrenaline shots, not a fine.

I maintain the road test should include a closed course track with wet and dry weather conditions, an automated animal/child running in front, simulations on track of distracted driving, etc. Think in the vein of mythbusters (that episode) and Canada's worst driver.
Experiencing these things is sort of like the concept of- a bird in hand is worth two in the Bush.


And highway & winter driving as mandatory before full licence is issued.
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Re: Speed Cameras

Postby lightspeed » Jul 1st, 2017, 5:36 pm

neilsimon wrote:
LTD wrote:...
safer drivers that's a laugh might be time to get out of the sun for a while

Look at the stats if you don't believe me. Canada has 6 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants per year, or 6.2 per billion vehicle-km. The UK has 2.9 and 3.6 and Ireland has 4.1 and 3.9. By these measures, they are significantly safer. Canada has about 50% more road deaths than Ireland by both metrics. Our road death rates are less of a laughing matter than you might think.


We have:

- Treacherous weather conditions
- Mountain passes
- High elevation mountain highways
- A Wild West yee haw drink driving culture*

* 34% of accidents v 15% maximum in EU countries. The second highest of all developed countries in the world. Something to be ashamed of.

It's not a like for like comparison.
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