Castanet

I wonder if I can be on the fone while operating a self driving car?

Bman wrote:I wonder if I can be on the fone while operating a self driving car?

You can nap, peruse your iPad, shop online or do whatever you like.

lightspeed wrote: do whatever you like.

Fercryingoutloud...don't tell him that and not without darkened windows!

Bsuds wrote:

lightspeed wrote: do whatever you like.

Fercryingoutloud...don't tell him that and not without darkened windows!

Just pack Kleenex in the glove box.

JennParker wrote:I am pretty sure the commercial driver in his loaded gravel truck, cell phone stuck to his ear, who blew through the 4-way stop like it wasn't there yesterday... Would have lost a lot more than a few contacts and some business had he hit someone. There is no phone call in the world that is worth someone's life. Not. A. One. If you're yapping on a phone and hit my vehicle and injure one of my loves ones... Hell hath no fury as an angry mother and wife.

Its one thing to have a phone glued to your ear and another to press a button on the steering wheel and talk into air. Two very different things.

Smurf wrote:Dizzy I can understand where you're coming from having been self employed but can't totally agree with loosing all your business if you don't answer your phone.

Never said you'll loose all your business.

Smurf wrote:Talk to your customers and explain to them that you value them but you also value your life and the lives of everyone around you on the road. Explain that you want to go home at night to friends and family. You will get a hold of them as soon as it is safe to do so and you will serve them in a timely manner. In my mind any customer that cannot deal with that is not worth having. I believe if explained properly your customers will respect you for what you are doing and not dump you.

Some clients will understand, some won't - its just the way it is. Just like when you go into a store or restaurant, if you don't receive prompt service, chances are you may not visit there again. Each industry is different, each business is different, each client is different. Times have changed, when I started out, clients were more than fine if it took you a few days to get back to them. Then voicemail and emails came along, clients were expecting you to get back to them the same day. Then texting came along, now they expected contact within hours - its just the way it is.

Smurf wrote:You say cars are getting better but if you truly know the facts it is not just the cars. It is taking your attention off the road. If you are actually doing business I can almost guarantee you that you are distracted. It has been proven over and over that just the distraction of your mind can be as bad as taking your eyes off the road. I actually believe all vehicles should be equipped to block cell phone reception when in gear. Also prevent the vehicle from starting if that feature is not functioning. That would also level the playing field for you as everyone else would be in the same boat. People have to learn that they can survive without constant communication. It would save a lot of lives, tons of accidents and cut our vehicle insurance costs an amazing amount.

Each and everyone of us drives distracted, every day and every time we get into a car - that is a fact. At what point are you going to say the balance has been met? Banning hands free phones? Banning stereos? Banning talking to passengers? No food or drinks allowed in a car? All have risks - cars are being designed more and more to reduce that risk but we will never completely eliminate it - that is the one and only fact.

10 years ago I would have agreed with you - no phone call is that important, but sadly, our society and demand for instant communication has changed. The automotive world has adapted to that and will continue to adapt - by offering more sophisticated and easier to use hands free systems and at the same time introducing vehicle and driver's assist features such as adaptive cruise control, lane departure warning, or even pulling the car off the road and stoping if your hands are off the wheel for a certain length of time as found in newer European cars.

Dizzy1 wrote:...
Its one thing to have a phone glued to your ear and another to press a button on the steering wheel and talk into air. Two very different things.

Different, but actually similarly dangerous. It's not that you're holding something to your head that is the problem, it's that you're not focusing on the road that is the problem.
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/top_three/watchdog-report-statistics-show-hands-free-cell-phone-use-while/article_dcab06b6-6614-11df-9e65-001cc4c03286.html
http://evidencebasedliving.human.cornell.edu/2013/06/17/the-evidence-on-hands-free-cell-phone-devices-while-driving/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2015/08/20/is-hands-free-cell-phone-use-really-safer-for-driving-we-asked-mythbusters/
http://www.nsc.org/learn/NSC-Initiatives/Pages/distracted-driving-hands-free-is-not-risk-free-infographic.aspx

neilsimon wrote:

Dizzy1 wrote:...
Its one thing to have a phone glued to your ear and another to press a button on the steering wheel and talk into air. Two very different things.

Different, but actually similarly dangerous. It's not that you're holding something to your head that is the problem, it's that you're not focusing on the road that is the problem.
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/top_three/watchdog-report-statistics-show-hands-free-cell-phone-use-while/article_dcab06b6-6614-11df-9e65-001cc4c03286.html
http://evidencebasedliving.human.cornell.edu/2013/06/17/the-evidence-on-hands-free-cell-phone-devices-while-driving/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2015/08/20/is-hands-free-cell-phone-use-really-safer-for-driving-we-asked-mythbusters/
http://www.nsc.org/learn/NSC-Initiatives/Pages/distracted-driving-hands-free-is-not-risk-free-infographic.aspx

I've read the articles, and while hands free is distracting, you can't tell me that it is just as equally distracting as only having one hand on the wheel while a conversation is focused on one ear instead of surrounding you in a more natural environment. Is hands free more distracting than talking to a passenger? Absolutely. Is it just as distracting as taking distracted driving a step further and removing your hand from the wheel and having your brain focus on holding the phone to your ear and trying to listen even more closely to a conversation in one ear? Come on, you don't have to write a study to figure out the obvious. Thats like saying taking a sip of your coffee is equally distracting as eating a burger with one hand, milkshake in your other hand while steering with your knees.

Dizzy1 wrote:...
I've read the articles, and while hands free is distracting, you can't tell me that it is just as equally distracting as only having one hand on the wheel while a conversation is focused on one ear instead of surrounding you in a more natural environment.

Not what I said at all. I said it was similarly dangerous and the numbers back me up. Maybe you don't want to believe the numbers because that would make you a "bad driver"?

Is hands free more distracting than talking to a passenger? Absolutely. Is it just as distracting as taking distracted driving a step further and removing your hand from the wheel and having your brain focus on holding the phone to your ear and trying to listen even more closely to a conversation in one ear? Come on, you don't have to write a study to figure out the obvious.

Sometimes what seems "obvious", or "common sense" is just one's inability to actually understand the complexity of the situation, or one trying to rationalise something which the evidence disagrees with. If you think that the numbers are wrong, if you think that hands-free cell use is far less dangerous, find the statistics to prove it. I'd love to see such, especially if gathered in a reasonable fashion.

Thats like saying taking a sip of your coffee is equally distracting as eating a burger with one hand, milkshake in your other hand while steering with your knees.

My personal opinion on the matter is that we need a much more comprehensive approach to driving, one which not only looks at one's ability to follow a simple set of rules, but one which also asks one to evaluate risks and risky behaviour. Inability to see what is actually risky is a major problem. I know people who perform entire meetings (45 minute+) while driving from one place to another, but seemingly legally because they are using hands-free systems. I would contend that someone who uses a hand held device for 1 minute is hugely safer, even though they are breaking the law. Something tells me that we can't expect drivers to think, it's too much to ask, and so we are left with drivers who can't sensibly evaluate risk and learn to be safer, better drivers.

[quote="neilsimon"]
Not what I said at all. I said it was similarly dangerous and the numbers back me up. Maybe you don't want to believe the numbers because that would make you a "bad driver"?
The difference between a good driver or a bad driver is someone that is defined by their driving ability, how they maintain safe control of the vehicle, how they can assess the ever changing dynamics of the driving experience and react to it - the difference between a good and bad driver cannot simply be based on a predetermined set of numbers which was based on a "study".

Is having a passenger in the vehicle the same as talking on the phone in terms of distractions? Yes and no. A passenger is also another set of eyes and ears. Someone in the vehicle to also watch the road is different than someone on a phone who cannot tell you what is happening on the road.

Are passengers distracting? Adults not so much... Kids, that is a whole new ball game.

I would much rather share road space with a Big Rig who's operator has a phone to their ear.
Than about any other road user.

That Rig drivers lively-hood is all about driving, and that is their main "focus". phone or not.

Anyone that does not drive as their main occupation is distracted by what their main "focus" is.

From what I witness on a daily basis is a total lack of "focus" of the general road user.

Sidenote: It truly baffles me how a good portion of general road users even managed to
convince someone they understood enough about vehicle dynamics and a reasonable
understanding of the do's and don'ts of road usage to even get licenced in the first place.

Confused, inept, and indecisive are words that come to mind. Now add distracted (lack of "focus") in the mix

What is distracting is navigating those touch screen headunits that come in many new vehicles, certainly more than my one button answer in my traditional style unit - I don't even need to look at it.

Dizzy 1 wrote:

Some clients will understand, some won't - its just the way it is. Just like when you go into a store or restaurant, if you don't receive prompt service, chances are you may not visit there again. Each industry is different, each business is different, each client is different. Times have changed, when I started out, clients were more than fine if it took you a few days to get back to them. Then voicemail and emails came along, clients were expecting you to get back to them the same day. Then texting came along, now they expected contact within hours - its just the way it is.

In other words you do not have to do it while you are driving, you have time to reply at a stop. Stopping within hours is totally doable and probably not a bad idea anyway.

I'm not sure if this info is accurate as my class 1 CVOR is clean without any infractions, but my first employer said that the fine to a Class 1 driver using a cell phone while driving can be $1100, and the fine to his employer can be in the $10k - $11k range. Now this was back in 2010 and in another province.

A class 1 driver with a phone to his/her ear is usually a flip-flop wearing pseudo-professional driver. Any company I drove for sent messages through the onboard communication system and they understood it would be answered when the rig was parked. If a professional driver (Class 1 Class 3 etc) causes death due to distracted driving, they'll lose a whole lot more than a "contract".