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Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby lesliepaul » Sep 20th, 2017, 10:31 am

GordonH wrote:My winter mountain pass driving is done (if I need to go to the coast or east during winter, I will fly & rent a vehicle).
Once my current summer & winter tires need to be replaced, I will be buying All Weather tires they have the mountain snowflake. They will be more then enough for driving up & down the valley in the winter.


Not sure what kind of vehicle you drive but I am in the process of trying to figure out what to put on my 1/2 ton 4x4. I am looking at General Grabbers A/T or Yokohama Geolander A/T. Both of these tires have the "Mountain Snowflake" symbol BUT are NOT a softer compound for winter. Last week I was told by 2 tire shops that they can get away with the symbol because of the outer tread pattern that supposedly works better in snow??????? Check this out for yourself to confirm.
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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby GordonH » Sep 20th, 2017, 10:37 am

^^^ no large truck here, its small vehicle.

Here's link to tires I'd be looking at:
https://www.kaltire.com/en/tires/wrg3/1 ... th&start=2

no more need to switch from summers to winters back to summers etc... etc each year.
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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby Catsumi » Sep 20th, 2017, 11:48 am

I bought the Federal Himalaya snow/mud/wet tires. They EXCEED the ratings applied to tire testing. Highly recommend.

I Purchased in USA but think they can be shipped to Canada. Maybe they are selling them now in B.C. and not just in Ont. and Quebec.

I drive a passenger vehicle, perfectly maintained, and drive to road conditions.

Interestingly enough, a President of a tire mfg firm also drives year around on winter; .assumably he has deep pockets and drives a heck of a lot more than I do now. What do these people know that we don't in general about good tires?

I drive less than 5000 kms annually and my biggest concern on the roads is being on lookout for the know-it-alls that blow through stop signs, red lights and speed as if they were shot out of a cannon.

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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby Bsuds » Sep 20th, 2017, 12:10 pm

Not a good idea to drive on Winter tires all year.

https://info.kaltire.com/what-happens-w ... ear-round/
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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby Deproulx » Sep 20th, 2017, 1:12 pm

GordonH wrote:^^^ no large truck here, its small vehicle.

Here's link to tires I'd be looking at:
https://www.kaltire.com/en/tires/wrg3/1 ... th&start=2

no more need to switch from summers to winters back to summers etc... etc each year.

I installed the Nokian WRG3 SUV tires on my Grand Cherokee last year and was happy with them. Not as good as real winter tires but much better than all-seasons and I don't have to buy extra rims, store them and change tires twice a year. :up: They are fantastic rain tires! I don't expect them to last 100K as a winter tire. There is a snowflake symbol recessed in the face of the tread. When that symbol is no longer visible, they are no longer considered "winter" tires, but still will have a lot of treadlife as 3-season tires.
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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby Dizzy1 » Sep 20th, 2017, 10:42 pm

Catsumi wrote:I bought the Federal Himalaya snow/mud/wet tires. They EXCEED the ratings applied to tire testing. Highly recommend.

I Purchased in USA but think they can be shipped to Canada. Maybe they are selling them now in B.C. and not just in Ont. and Quebec.

I drive a passenger vehicle, perfectly maintained, and drive to road conditions.

Interestingly enough, a President of a tire mfg firm also drives year around on winter; .assumably he has deep pockets and drives a heck of a lot more than I do now. What do these people know that we don't in general about good tires?

I drive less than 5000 kms annually and my biggest concern on the roads is being on lookout for the know-it-alls that blow through stop signs, red lights and speed as if they were shot out of a cannon.

:130:
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Its simple physics. The number one thing that keeps your vehicle on the road is traction, and the number one component of that is your tires. Dedicated winter tires are made using a softer rubber compound, the temperature increase, that rubber becomes softer and softer - the softer it becomes, the less traction you have - period! You can convince yourself that you'll be OK because you feel your driving habits will be OK for a loss of traction, but one day, when you're least expecting it - that extra 10 feet or more of braking distance you lost can end up being tragic.
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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby Catsumi » Sep 21st, 2017, 8:32 am

You live your life your way, and I will do the same with mine. R:admin:
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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby johnny24 » Sep 21st, 2017, 10:22 am

Dizzy1 wrote:Its simple physics. The number one thing that keeps your vehicle on the road is traction, and the number one component of that is your tires. Dedicated winter tires are made using a softer rubber compound, the temperature increase, that rubber becomes softer and softer - the softer it becomes, the less traction you have - period! You can convince yourself that you'll be OK because you feel your driving habits will be OK for a loss of traction, but one day, when you're least expecting it - that extra 10 feet or more of braking distance you lost can end up being tragic.


It is simple physics, but the softer it becomes, the more traction you have.

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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby Glacier » Sep 21st, 2017, 12:14 pm

Catsumi wrote:Go to Wheels.ca and John Mahler's articles re winter tires used in summer. He says that we have been oversold on the idea that winter tires deteriorate in hot conditions very quickly as over the past few years the technology and the compounds used in manufacturing tires has improved significantly. The most important thing is tire pressure which should be checked regularly, driving to road conditions, and not challenging winter tires in hot conditions by driving fast, slamming on brakes, cornerning hard, etc.

The road tests for stopping distances were performed at 60 MPH which would be outrageous speeding in the small town driving I do now.

Globe and Mail, Nov. 15, 2016. RAynald Marchand, General Manager of Canada Safety Council admits to driving annually to Florida from Ottawa and back, using snow tires to drive around Florida (15,000 kms). Reports No problems.

I now drive 3000 kms annually, drive like a sane person and have a 55 year pristine driving record so must be doing something right.

Tire companies will of course do their best to scare you into buying more tires even if, such as in my case, the winters will be fine year round.


Interesting. My mom has had the same winter tires on her truck summer and winter for 4 years, and she drives quite a bit. She is getting new tires this year, not because the tread is gone, but because the sun has cracked the sidewalls.
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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby Catsumi » Sep 21st, 2017, 12:46 pm

New industry opportunity here: sunblock lotion for tires ! :biggrin:

When I bought the tires in USA from Les Schwab, I also purchased about a litre size bottle of tire conditioner/cleaner for $25.00. It's called Re-Tire... spray on, let sit, wipe off. Much better than that tire foam or shampoo sold in aerosol cans.
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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby TylerM4 » Sep 21st, 2017, 3:00 pm

johnny24 wrote:
It is simple physics, but the softer it becomes, the more traction you have.


Beat me to it. Softer rubber = more traction. Rubber get's HARDER when temps drop. Winter tires have softer rubber and use compounds less impacted by temp changes to help provide better traction. Sipping and tread design also comes into play.
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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby Dizzy1 » Sep 21st, 2017, 7:25 pm

johnny24 wrote:It is simple physics, but the softer it becomes, the more traction you have.

TylerM4 wrote:Beat me to it. Softer rubber = more traction. Rubber get's HARDER when temps drop. Winter tires have softer rubber and use compounds less impacted by temp changes to help provide better traction. Sipping and tread design also comes into play.

But we're not talking about driving in colder temperatures, we're talking about driving in hot temperatures.

Soft rubber (winter tires) still get hard (giggidy), but not nearly as hard as hard rubber (summer tires), so yes, when the temps drop, the softer rubber stays more pliable offering more traction then harder rubber which gets too hard.

But now, when the temperatures rise, the soft rubber looses traction where as the hard rubber gains traction - which is why we have dedicated winter/summer tires.

When tires warm up, the rubber begins to deteriorate, when the rubber deteriorates, the rubber turns into oil, the oil creates a film, the film causes you to loose traction. Add to that, softer rubber bends/buckles more than hard rubber while cornering, braking and accelerating which leads to more body roll and lean and could upset the balance of the car.

Granted, there are some scenarios where a softer rubber in hot temperatures are advantageous, such as launching a car like in a drag race, the softer rubber will give you greater initial grip to bite into the road, but once the tires warm up, you've lost that advantage.
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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby lesliepaul » Sep 21st, 2017, 8:00 pm

Good point Dizzy..............back in the 80's I took an Advanced High Speed Driver Training Instructors course and in one of the practical sessions we tested "threshold braking" and full on panic braking. With our test runs at 60 MPH using radar the panic stops or hitting the brakes as hard as you can resulted in the vehicle GAINING SPEED for a split second before speed reduction happened. This occurred because your tires "liquefied" (black tire marks) initially before grip was achieved. At the time ABS braking systems were not available.

Even today with ABS braking systems, from HIGH speeds vehicles will leave black tire tracks simply because of such dramatic speed reduction.
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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby TylerM4 » Sep 22nd, 2017, 8:27 am

Dizzy1 wrote:[When tires warm up, the rubber begins to deteriorate, when the rubber deteriorates, the rubber turns into oil, the oil creates a film, the film causes you to loose traction. Add to that, softer rubber bends/buckles more than hard rubber while cornering, braking and accelerating which leads to more body roll and lean and could upset the balance of the car.

Granted, there are some scenarios where a softer rubber in hot temperatures are advantageous, such as launching a car like in a drag race, the softer rubber will give you greater initial grip to bite into the road, but once the tires warm up, you've lost that advantage.


You're going to need to provide more information here to back up your claims.

Drag tires are a great example - ever wondered why they do those big burnouts? It's to provide heat that you claim results in less traction. Also if you look at high performance summer tires they all have SOFT rubber and well outperform the competition. The drawback? Low tread life due to the soft rubber.

I agree that winter tires in the summer aren't ideal - but it's not because of how soft the rubber becomes.

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Re: Tire Manufacturers Reducing Tire Life

Postby 60-YEARS-in-Ktown » Sep 22nd, 2017, 12:17 pm

I agree with last post.
For Dizzy, look up tirewarmersm it's a thing now..
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