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Poor driving habits

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Poor driving habits

Postby kaitlyn » Dec 30th, 2017, 7:21 pm

It is very concerning that dangerous mountain passes are not closed down when the road conditions are reported as being in poor condition for driving. When the coq is in bad shape, close it down..... It would save lives and also curb the huge cumulative hit the taxpayers have to support....... medical care, ICBC payouts, police overtime, hospital overtime etc, court costs.etc. Does this not sound reasonable?
With the recent snow fall in Kelowna, drivers continue to speed and tailgate etc. The drivers have no regard for the other drivers on the road.... and basically are not using any common sense and are totally unaware of the possible results of their careless actions..
The introduction of photo radar is supported by myself. We would not have to hire more rcmp for this....On the Bennett bridge alone , the government could generate some serious revenue..... Most people are travelling along at 80 mph once they are on the actual bridge.. In the long run, it would slow drivers down. and reduce personal injury rates...The people who are opposed to photo radar, are the speeders... otherwise they would not care about the introduction.
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Re: poor driving habits

Postby TreeGuy » Dec 30th, 2017, 7:57 pm

Like a bad driver your points in this post are all over the place, mountain passes, snow in Kelowna and speeders on the bridge.

I will take mountain passes for $500 Alex

Alex: “This roadway is used to distribute goods across BC and Canada.
Me: “What is the Coquihalla”

Mountain passes for $300

Alex: “These are the people who should not be on the Coquihalla”
Me: “Who are the whitenuckle drivers”

Mountain passes for $200

Alex: “They unreliable, lack maintenance and their black round parts are bald”
Me: “What type of cars shouldn’t be on the Coquihalla”

Joking aside, I think there should be an endorsement on our drivers license for driving the mountains in the winter. You take a course and you get the endorsement.

I’ve traveled to the coast numerous times in the winter without issue. It’s not always the highways or winter weather to blame.

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Re: poor driving habits

Postby Jflem1983 » Dec 30th, 2017, 8:05 pm

Ridiculous. Learn to drive. Keep the bloody road open for people who have proper vehicles and abilities
We don't reach for handouts we reach for those who are down . "Garth Brooks "

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"
MAKE ALBERTA GREAT AGAIN

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Re: poor driving habits

Postby lightspeed » Dec 30th, 2017, 8:15 pm

Incompetent drivers drive slow. Dangerous drivers drive fast. Some competent drivers break the speed limit. Some speed limits are way too low. Speed cameras do nothing to improve safety.

You know the person who does 10-20 over the limit, never gets a ticket, has never had an accident and gets full insurance no claims discount?

You know the person who drives like a sloth, causes multiple accidents and close calls, white knuckles every trip, slows and meanders unnecessarily, brakes dragging down hills and brake checking every corner and imaginary danger, causes havoc, backs out of parking spots without even looking, forgets their headlights and turn signals, and has bumps and scratches all over their jalopy?

Like the OP, the subject matter is all over the place and complex.
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Re: poor driving habits

Postby TheBoss » Dec 31st, 2017, 2:18 am

Lightspeed your way out to lunch. When i drive during the winter time i try to maintain my speed limit, the moment i feel the car wiggle i'll let off the gas slow down depending on the conditions sometimes 10-20kph. If the highways are terrible i'll back down my speed depending on road conditions. Just because you have winter tires doesn't mean you can drive anywhere near the speed limit if the road conditions are terrible.

When we had that major snowfall what 4 years ago now? I was trying to make it to work which was out by pritchard, The fastest i could safely go on the highway was 50kph any faster and it was becoming too sketchy. So i was taking my time, testing the road and seeing how the car would react if i had to stop suddenly. It took me almost an hour and half to make it to the outside of Westwold before the boss texted me saying work was cancelled.

On the way back i came across about 5-6 cars in the ditch including two semis. You know why those drivers ended up in the ditch because they were driving way too fast for road conditions. Also the car at the time didn't have the greatest winters under it or did it have half decent winters *bah* can never remember trivial things like that.

One thing my buddy told me to do when i had my town car was to go into the parking lot and see how it handles brakes etc, that helped me understand the dynamics of sliding and what the car does and what i should do or don't do.

Also the person saying we should be certified to drive mountain passes uhmm nope. It's simple don't drive if the weather turns ugly.

I remember driving in vernon a couple winters ago the roads weren't too bad, i was able to do about 40-50. So i'm coming up to the lights by the new safeway on HW Y97. I feel the car wiggle a little bit, so i let off the gas and go down to about 40. A car comes flying past me doing about 80 and can't even stop for the light that just turned red, all i seen was a big fluff of snow as they hit their brakes and flew through the red light. That idiot could of killed someone.

The biggest issue is drivers over confidence in their skills. They think that because their car comes with ABS Traction control AWD and etc that they're invisible on the road, nope not at all. My old town car just had abs and no other electronic nanny and i was able to drive that car every winter with no issues.

Also winter tires doesn't mean squat, yes they do help a little bit. They're not gonna help you once you lose control of your vehicle all because you decided to try and do the speed limit in adverse weather conditions.

One other thing i'm gonna add, my mom was recently rear ended by someone driving way too quick for the road conditions. She was stopped at a stop sign waiting for traffic to clear, the road was icy but if you slowed down and braked early you would have no issues. The driver was about in his 50's couldn't stop his vehicle safely in time and ended up rear ending my mom. His excuse was the road was icy, no you just couldn't slow down for the road conditions. The real sad part is he didn't file a claim yet, so my mom has to wait until he does so before she can get her vehicle fixed. She would go and do it right away but with Christmas she doesn't have the extra cash on hand right now to pay the deductible.

That's my rant, Winter tires do help but shouldn't be relied upon. Driving with care and slowing down when the road conditions are poor.

Lightspeed i hope i never meet you on the road, you sound like the person who i should avoid when driving.
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Re: poor driving habits

Postby Jflem1983 » Dec 31st, 2017, 7:22 am

TheBoss wrote:Lightspeed your way out to lunch. When i drive during the winter time i try to maintain my speed limit, the moment i feel the car wiggle i'll let off the gas slow down depending on the conditions sometimes 10-20kph. If the highways are terrible i'll back down my speed depending on road conditions. Just because you have winter tires doesn't mean you can drive anywhere near the speed limit if the road conditions are terrible.

When we had that major snowfall what 4 years ago now? I was trying to make it to work which was out by pritchard, The fastest i could safely go on the highway was 50kph any faster and it was becoming too sketchy. So i was taking my time, testing the road and seeing how the car would react if i had to stop suddenly. It took me almost an hour and half to make it to the outside of Westwold before the boss texted me saying work was cancelled.

On the way back i came across about 5-6 cars in the ditch including two semis. You know why those drivers ended up in the ditch because they were driving way too fast for road conditions. Also the car at the time didn't have the greatest winters under it or did it have half decent winters *bah* can never remember trivial things like that.

One thing my buddy told me to do when i had my town car was to go into the parking lot and see how it handles brakes etc, that helped me understand the dynamics of sliding and what the car does and what i should do or don't do.

Also the person saying we should be certified to drive mountain passes uhmm nope. It's simple don't drive if the weather turns ugly.

I remember driving in vernon a couple winters ago the roads weren't too bad, i was able to do about 40-50. So i'm coming up to the lights by the new safeway on HW Y97. I feel the car wiggle a little bit, so i let off the gas and go down to about 40. A car comes flying past me doing about 80 and can't even stop for the light that just turned red, all i seen was a big fluff of snow as they hit their brakes and flew through the red light. That idiot could of killed someone.

The biggest issue is drivers over confidence in their skills. They think that because their car comes with ABS Traction control AWD and etc that they're invisible on the road, nope not at all. My old town car just had abs and no other electronic nanny and i was able to drive that car every winter with no issues.

Also winter tires doesn't mean squat, yes they do help a little bit. They're not gonna help you once you lose control of your vehicle all because you decided to try and do the speed limit in adverse weather conditions.

One other thing i'm gonna add, my mom was recently rear ended by someone driving way too quick for the road conditions. She was stopped at a stop sign waiting for traffic to clear, the road was icy but if you slowed down and braked early you would have no issues. The driver was about in his 50's couldn't stop his vehicle safely in time and ended up rear ending my mom. His excuse was the road was icy, no you just couldn't slow down for the road conditions. The real sad part is he didn't file a claim yet, so my mom has to wait until he does so before she can get her vehicle fixed. She would go and do it right away but with Christmas she doesn't have the extra cash on hand right now to pay the deductible.

That's my rant, Winter tires do help but shouldn't be relied upon. Driving with care and slowing down when the road conditions are poor.

Lightspeed i hope i never meet you on the road, you sound like the person who i should avoid when driving.




I think lightspeed is a trucker. His opinion counts. Those guys are always on the hwy. I do 50 to 75 k km a year. 90k km in 2015. Thats nothing for a trucker.

As for having to drive 40 on the hwy. Ive been there too in a few blizzards with roads closed either side of me. More recent on hwy 16 thru edson had to drive real slow thru a blizzard. Truckers blew my doors off i was a hazard to them. I couldnt see the road was driving by feel. Im guessing real truckers get pretty good at it
We don't reach for handouts we reach for those who are down . "Garth Brooks "

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"
MAKE ALBERTA GREAT AGAIN

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Re: poor driving habits

Postby lightspeed » Dec 31st, 2017, 7:59 am

TheBoss wrote:Lightspeed your way out to lunch. When i drive during the winter time i try to maintain my speed limit, the moment i feel the car wiggle i'll let off the gas slow down depending on the conditions sometimes 10-20kph. If the highways are terrible i'll back down my speed depending on road conditions. Just because you have winter tires doesn't mean you can drive anywhere near the speed limit if the road conditions are terrible.

When we had that major snowfall what 4 years ago now? I was trying to make it to work which was out by pritchard, The fastest i could safely go on the highway was 50kph any faster and it was becoming too sketchy. So i was taking my time, testing the road and seeing how the car would react if i had to stop suddenly. It took me almost an hour and half to make it to the outside of Westwold before the boss texted me saying work was cancelled.

On the way back i came across about 5-6 cars in the ditch including two semis. You know why those drivers ended up in the ditch because they were driving way too fast for road conditions. Also the car at the time didn't have the greatest winters under it or did it have half decent winters *bah* can never remember trivial things like that.

One thing my buddy told me to do when i had my town car was to go into the parking lot and see how it handles brakes etc, that helped me understand the dynamics of sliding and what the car does and what i should do or don't do.

Also the person saying we should be certified to drive mountain passes uhmm nope. It's simple don't drive if the weather turns ugly.

I remember driving in vernon a couple winters ago the roads weren't too bad, i was able to do about 40-50. So i'm coming up to the lights by the new safeway on HW Y97. I feel the car wiggle a little bit, so i let off the gas and go down to about 40. A car comes flying past me doing about 80 and can't even stop for the light that just turned red, all i seen was a big fluff of snow as they hit their brakes and flew through the red light. That idiot could of killed someone.

The biggest issue is drivers over confidence in their skills. They think that because their car comes with ABS Traction control AWD and etc that they're invisible on the road, nope not at all. My old town car just had abs and no other electronic nanny and i was able to drive that car every winter with no issues.

Also winter tires doesn't mean squat, yes they do help a little bit. They're not gonna help you once you lose control of your vehicle all because you decided to try and do the speed limit in adverse weather conditions.

One other thing i'm gonna add, my mom was recently rear ended by someone driving way too quick for the road conditions. She was stopped at a stop sign waiting for traffic to clear, the road was icy but if you slowed down and braked early you would have no issues. The driver was about in his 50's couldn't stop his vehicle safely in time and ended up rear ending my mom. His excuse was the road was icy, no you just couldn't slow down for the road conditions. The real sad part is he didn't file a claim yet, so my mom has to wait until he does so before she can get her vehicle fixed. She would go and do it right away but with Christmas she doesn't have the extra cash on hand right now to pay the deductible.

That's my rant, Winter tires do help but shouldn't be relied upon. Driving with care and slowing down when the road conditions are poor.

Lightspeed i hope i never meet you on the road, you sound like the person who i should avoid when driving.


I picked up on the OP's dribble about speed cameras so my post was not about driving in winter weather conditions in general. Rather the idiocy of terrible drivers and people who make the assumption that slow is safe.
"Why does everyone in Kelowna act like they're in Hollywood"

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Re: poor driving habits

Postby my5cents » Dec 31st, 2017, 10:45 am

Thank you Kaitlyn for starting up this topic.

Some have said you were "all over the road" with your comments [icon_lol2.gif] I think you raise some valid points, some I see merit in, others not.

It's a tough call, closing a major route. Having spoken to many driver's who have had collisions on icy roads, I've discovered that most blame the road and not themselves. "It was so icy nobody could stay on the road. I touched the brakes and went into the ditch". (so were there 25 other vehicles in that same ditch ????)

Many think photo radar will solve all our problems. It won't. It makes a violation something you can pay your way out of. No penalty points, no review of your driving just $$$$$.

I think permanent photo radar is a good idea for chronic problem areas. Perhaps the floating bridge, would be a good one to start. Also school zones, Trout Creek (Hwy 97 in Summerland)

TheBoss - I've had ABS on lots of vehicles, but it's never made my vehicles "INVISIBLE", must be a new option [icon_lol2.gif]. Was that supposed to be "invincible" ?

Nobody ever brings this up, but, I'll pose this.....

Is it a good idea, when starting out in conditions that are poor, if you have four wheel drive, or whatever, and can turn it off, driving with it on ??

If you want to see a real mess of smashed up vehicles, go to any tow yard or ICBC tow in bay, where they bring the un-drivable smashed up vehicles, after a snow storm. What do you see ? Four wheel drive vehicles.

What percentage of drivers, seeing snow and bad conditions, select four wheel drive, BEFORE they've driven a foot ?

I like to try out the roads, much like TheBoss said, he tests the roads. If I'm driving a four wheel drive vehicle, I want to feel what the roads are like when I take off from a stop, does my rear end slid out a bit. I do that by starting in two wheel drive. Then I get a better idea of how bad the road really is.

The other option, start out in four wheel drive, no problem accelerating, roads are pretty "good" hey this is good, I've got this 4 X 4 and all these stupid people in their non four wheel drive vehicles are going so slow, they are so timid.

Then I come up to a light, or a curve, and I then find out, how bad the road really is, because four wheel drive has no bearing at all in braking or turning.

Four wheel drive can give you a false sense of invisibility.

To, whoever said to go to a vacant parking lot and get used to the roadway that way, sliding around, getting a feeling for what it's like to loose it in the snow, I think it's a great idea, BUT guess who takes great delight in nailing you with a "Stunting" ticket (serious violation, I might ad).

Common sense would suggest that an empty parking lot, on a snowy morning, would be a safe way to experience slippery conditions, unfortunately that common sense doesn't extend to the "long arm of the law".
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"

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Re: poor driving habits

Postby LTD » Dec 31st, 2017, 10:50 am

4 wheel drive has a huge effect on turning
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Re: poor driving habits

Postby dirtybiker » Dec 31st, 2017, 10:52 am

TreeGuy for the win, well done, well played.
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Re: poor driving habits

Postby my5cents » Dec 31st, 2017, 11:12 am

LTD wrote:4 wheel drive has a huge effect on turning

In certain conditions, perhaps. Accelerating into a curve, where a two wheel drive would break away.

Braking in a curve, bye bye.
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Re: poor driving habits

Postby johnny24 » Dec 31st, 2017, 11:15 am

my5cents wrote:Thank you Kaitlyn for starting up this topic.

Some have said you were "all over the road" with your comments [icon_lol2.gif] I think you raise some valid points, some I see merit in, others not.

It's a tough call, closing a major route. Having spoken to many driver's who have had collisions on icy roads, I've discovered that most blame the road and not themselves. "It was so icy nobody could stay on the road. I touched the brakes and went into the ditch". (so were there 25 other vehicles in that same ditch ????)

Many think photo radar will solve all our problems. It won't. It makes a violation something you can pay your way out of. No penalty points, no review of your driving just $$$$$.

I think permanent photo radar is a good idea for chronic problem areas. Perhaps the floating bridge, would be a good one to start. Also school zones, Trout Creek (Hwy 97 in Summerland)

TheBoss - I've had ABS on lots of vehicles, but it's never made my vehicles "INVISIBLE", must be a new option [icon_lol2.gif]. Was that supposed to be "invincible" ?

Nobody ever brings this up, but, I'll pose this.....

Is it a good idea, when starting out in conditions that are poor, if you have four wheel drive, or whatever, and can turn it off, driving with it on ??

If you want to see a real mess of smashed up vehicles, go to any tow yard or ICBC tow in bay, where they bring the un-drivable smashed up vehicles, after a snow storm. What do you see ? Four wheel drive vehicles.

What percentage of drivers, seeing snow and bad conditions, select four wheel drive, BEFORE they've driven a foot ?

I like to try out the roads, much like TheBoss said, he tests the roads. If I'm driving a four wheel drive vehicle, I want to feel what the roads are like when I take off from a stop, does my rear end slid out a bit. I do that by starting in two wheel drive. Then I get a better idea of how bad the road really is.

The other option, start out in four wheel drive, no problem accelerating, roads are pretty "good" hey this is good, I've got this 4 X 4 and all these stupid people in their non four wheel drive vehicles are going so slow, they are so timid.

Then I come up to a light, or a curve, and I then find out, how bad the road really is, because four wheel drive has no bearing at all in braking or turning.

Four wheel drive can give you a false sense of invisibility.

To, whoever said to go to a vacant parking lot and get used to the roadway that way, sliding around, getting a feeling for what it's like to loose it in the snow, I think it's a great idea, BUT guess who takes great delight in nailing you with a "Stunting" ticket (serious violation, I might ad).

Common sense would suggest that an empty parking lot, on a snowy morning, would be a safe way to experience slippery conditions, unfortunately that common sense doesn't extend to the "long arm of the law".


I didn't think this thread could get any more disjointed. You have proven me wrong.
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Re: poor driving habits

Postby dirtybiker » Dec 31st, 2017, 11:46 am

Some great points my5cents.

I have 4 wheel drive, rarely use it,
If I've allready determined it to be nasty, I'll click it in
to just leave an intersection, or climb a grade.
Just for cruising on the flats though, two wheel drive.

I'd rather not waste my fuel.

As for photo radar, if it was actually in the name of safety, which it isn't.
in the stead of topping Government coffers, which it is.
Then it would be an easier sell to me.
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Re: poor driving habits

Postby lesliepaul » Dec 31st, 2017, 11:59 am

- Against photo radar........our so called safety to ANY level of government equals CASH!
- Ice Radials HELP but stupid drivers can make short work of their limited abilities.
- I have a 4X4 GMC 1/2 ton and it is in 2 Wheel drive 95% of the time in the winter. I prefer to "hone" my driving skills and rely on 4X4 when needed. My truck also has "Auto 4" which, when senses slip cuts into 4.........works great. NEVER use 4 HIGH unless absolutely needed.
- my5cents is absolutely right about finding an empty parking lot and do some slow speed sliding. Rest assured 95% of drivers panic at the first sign of a skid with the result being pure luck they did not end up in the ditch, others not so lucky. Yes, the police that ticket such activity are themselves some of the worst trained drivers out there. They think of themselves as being great with taxpayer vehicles.........smash one up, get another.........for free.
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Re: poor driving habits

Postby lightspeed » Dec 31st, 2017, 12:20 pm

my5cents wrote:
LTD wrote:4 wheel drive has a huge effect on turning

In certain conditions, perhaps. Accelerating into a curve, where a two wheel drive would break away.

Braking in a curve, bye bye.



There are various forms of 4wd and manufacturers have their own preference on how to set it up for different conditions. The traction controls sensors and relationship with the drivetrain make a huge difference.

Subaru, Jeep, BMW, Mercedes for example all handle a bit differently and all vary between price points. Best vehicles I've ever driven had a massive range of drivetrain options including 4wd lock. Coupled with the best winter tires I could get, apropriate speed, and following distance. The absolute worst experience was mud and snow tires on a pickup, which were great in deep fresh snow but absolutely terrifying on ice or cornering. Never again. And to think they're approved as legal winter tires makes me lol at the stupidity of govt policy.

Simple point, if you know your vehicle and know how it will handle in different types of weather you're ahead of the game. Don't drive like you're a legend in your own lifetime and you should make it home safely.
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