Fort McMurray's Beast

[Graham Adder]

How did it start?

Mike Flanagan, a professor of wildland fires at the University of Alberta, says the fire's proximity to the city, as well as data that shows there were no lightning strikes in the area, lead him to believe the cause of the fire was likely human.

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Fort Mcmurray has been facing difficult economic times for months. A slump or downturn in the oil market turned the self proclaimed city (Fort McMurray is not technically a city, but rather an "Urban Service Area".) on its ear, sending many back from whence they came and leaving others struggling to make payments on their toys while stretching thin in an attempt to make it to the other side. The other side has not shown itself yet, and the thin stretch has become desperate for many.

Crime rates have already shown spikes in the cites many of the unemployed headed back to. A lot of denial regarding the stats doesn't mean squat when it's your home that's been burglarized. I think it's obvious to see that many were hitting hard times compared to the padded lifestyle they'd been living. Those with few scruples used whatever means they had to use in order to keep up that lifestyle, or make those payments.

I've heard of stories, as many of you have, of people hitting hard times and find themselves unable to make the payments on that shiny truck in the yard. When times are tough, and others around them are just as hurting for cash, it often ends up in a scenario whereby the truck owner is so desperate to get out from under that debt, that they do the only thing they can think of to assure them of freedom from that debt. They torch the truck, then maker a claim. If they get away with it, their insurance pays out, the truck debt gets cleared and life goes on without that heavy burden and just a wee scorch mark to show for it all.

Back to Fort McMurray.

Does it seem ironic that the source of the fire was far out of the community in a heavily wooded area on a day when lightning was not a factor? It then made it into town in no time, swept down a drainage ditch and took out a city sized urban center?
The tar sands projects in the area, had a perimeter fire guard cleared around them in the case of wildfire, yet the very town that housed the workforce was not given that same level of security.

It was said in another thread on this forum, that it's been five years that the mayor of Fort McMurray has been warned to tidy up the forest around them, or there would be problems in the future. The future is now. Why was this imminent danger not addressed? Could it have been lacking that address with intent.

I've read reports regarding the costs of the work to be done to the tar sands projects when they finally suck the sand dry. The reclamation and closure procedures, rehabilitation projects and ground water restoration efforts will cost billions upon billions. Many companies have already raped areas of the tar sands, and filed for bankruptcy when the bills started coming in to fix what they destroyed. Many have left scars on the landscape for others to deal with in the future. This isn't a case where your mom is going to come and pick up after you.

So:

How did the fire start?
Who started it?
Why did they start it?
Was it an accident?

Will we ever know the real truth?



Is Fort McMurray a big shiny truck that Syncrude, Suncorp and others have been trying to sell, but can't?

[Dizzy1]

Does it seem ironic that the source of the fire was far out of the community in a heavily wooded area on a day when lightning was not a factor?

Nope.

It then made it into town in no time, swept down a drainage ditch and took out a city sized urban center?

Mother Nature can be spectacular yet horrifying.

The tar sands projects in the area, had a perimeter fire guard cleared around them in the case of wildfire, yet the very town that housed the workforce was not given that same level of security.

The oil sand sites have never been in danger and there are more than enough camps up there to house the workers. Many of the camps that have been shut down over the last year will be reopening bringing many jobs to the area.

I've read reports regarding the costs of the work to be done to the tar sands projects when they finally suck the sand dry. The reclamation and closure procedures, rehabilitation projects and ground water restoration efforts will cost billions upon billions. Many companies have already raped areas of the tar sands, and filed for bankruptcy when the bills started coming in to fix what they destroyed. Many have left scars on the landscape for others to deal with in the future. This isn't a case where your mom is going to come and pick up after you.

The open pit mines have enough oil in them that they'll be digging them up long after you and I are gone. The costs to reclaim the land are minimal. All the over burden is kept and reused in the reclamation process. The majority of the sites are SAGD type facilities, they have a very small footprint. Once the well is not needed anymore and dismantled, it wouldn't even take a week to make it ready for reclamation.

Will we ever know the real truth?

Whats the point? You'll never believe the truth.

Is Fort McMurray a big shiny truck that Syncrude, Suncorp and others have been trying to sell, but can't?

Seeing that Suncor is buying left right and centre up there. They're their to stay.

BTW, sites are opening up again this week - first group of people have already gotten the callback, they fly in tomorrow.

[LANDM]

Fort Mac is hardly a dream that the companies are trying to sell anyone on. It is simply a city which services a huge resource complex. Hardly new or unestablished, unless you feel the tens of billions invested is just a test run, and the billions of barrels of oil produced are immaterial.

As for a fire guard around the city, nobody does that. Can you imagine the outcry of constantly destroying huge swaths of trees?

[Graham Adder]

As for a fire guard around the city, nobody does that. Can you imagine the outcry of constantly destroying huge swaths of trees?

Nobody does that. What a statement.
We do things this way, because that's the way it's always been done.
That doesn't make it right.
That doesn't make it wise.
That doesn't justify the stupidity.

Why would you constantly destroy huge swaths (?) of trees, to clear a perimeter fire guard. That outta be a one time thing for the most part. From there on, you mow it.
Why the dramatics? Let's talk reasonable and logical and see where we end up. My side of the fence, or yours.

Begin.

[vegas1500]

OP just curious if you have ever been to Fort McMurray and or the oil sands.....for,the most part the mines are a barren wasteland. Once the oil that Mother Nature so kindly left there is removed, the land is reclaimed, plants and trees grow, and animals come. I forget the actual stat but they will be pulling oil out of,the ground for many generations to come.....

I have had the privilege to live and work up there. It's a very strong community (not without its issues like any city) and will be rebuilt and will be back. Once it is I guess the people you say are causing the crime rates to go up in other cities, can return......

[Fancy]

The infrastructure is still there - yes, it will be rebuilt and survive.

[LANDM]

Nobody does that. What a statement.
We do things this way, because that's the way it's always been done.
That doesn't make it right.
That doesn't make it wise.
That doesn't justify the stupidity.

Why would you constantly destroy huge swaths (?) of trees, to clear a perimeter fire guard. That outta be a one time thing for the most part. From there on, you mow it.
Why the dramatics? Let's talk reasonable and logical and see where we end up. My side of the fence, or yours.

Begin.

It is merely that....a statement of truth. You are taking it as a right/wrong commentary.
I viewed your comments on not having a fire guard as a sort of condemnation of the relevant decision-makers in Fort Mac because of the lack of fire guard. That is unfair and silly since it is not standard practice and is only useful at the time of looking in the rear view mirror and saying that it would have been nice to have clear cut all around the city.
I assume you are making extensive local efforts to have clear cut fire guards around Kelowna? Somehow it isn't hitting the media but I am confident you must be doing so, correct? Did you ever cost out this process for Kelowna and area?

As for it being a one time thing......really? Do you actually feel that Fort Mac was stagnant for the past 30 years? It was a rapidly growing area and the fire guard would literally have to be updated every year. Essentially, the city would be doing constant cutting, not just mowing of an existing clear cut. Then, when you look at the scale of the fire and how it jumped due to the wind, the clear cut would have to be incredibly large. Ever wonder how the tree-hugger crowd would reconcile that with the live-in-a-safety-bubble crowd?

20-20 hindsight and infinite money are two wonderful things. Neither are reality. Planning for random, low-occurrence events is tough and expensive.

[Graham Adder]

Planning for random, low-occurrence events is tough and expensive.

Is planning for low-occurrence events tougher and more expensive than rebuilding what's been lost to fire @ Fort McMurray?

Not Planning for inevitable events with catastrophic results is plain stupid and irresponsible.

[Always Sunny]

Planning for random, low-occurrence events is tough and expensive.

planning for low-occurrence events tougher and more expensive than rebuilding what's been lost to fire @ Fort McMurray?

Not Planning for inevitable events with catastrophic results is plain stupid and irresponsible.

The "inevitable" tsunami that's slated to hit Vancouver at some point is projected to cost Canada $75 billion. But do we see those multi million dollar homes being build up on stilts?

The reality is that the world is full of tragedy. Full of unavoidable and unpredictable acts of God. It's impossible to budget and plan for every possible scenario.

The fact that no lives were lost as a direct result of this fire is nothing short of amazing.