A special message for a select few (you know who you are)

[Jo]

I have noticed a marked increase in snipes, slings and arrows on the board. Whatever the reason, it needs to stop.

1. Believe it or not, there are people who have a different point of view than you, and perhaps even more of a shock to you, they are allowed to post those views, just like you. Post your opposing view as strongly as you like, but stop making it personal.

2. If someone makes a personal attack against you, don't respond in kind. It just derails the thread, and if you respond then report the post we not only have to clean up the original post we have to clean up your post. Oh, and third of all, it's getting me annoyed, and that's not a good thing.

3. Report a problem, but please make sure that you weren't the one who started it. I don't know how many times I get a report claiming that "so-and-so called me an idiot" and when I check it out, turns out that you called him a brain-dead bonehead in the post just above.

4. If you receive a warning, etc., from me ('etc' could mean a lot of things, all bad) don't go on a rampage reporting old stuff to show me how many other people are even worse than you. Trust me, there's nobody worse than you. Report a problem at the time, but don't go mining for problems after the fact to prove a point. I have a special place in Hell for people who do that.

5. This is a biggie. Stop stalking that person who is, in your view, the stupidest person ever born and who is clearly a) on drugs, b) a heavy drinker, and c) psychotic. Remember, he/she thinks the same about you. Maybe you're both right. Don't try to 'educate' such people, they, like you, will not listen.

6. If this post makes you mad and makes you think that I'm targeting you, you're almost certainly right.

[Piecemaker]

:bethecoffee: UH, OH...the gremlins tainted Jo's coffee...AGAIN!!! Her super powers have returned!...(Darn, now I have to go searching for all the stalking snipers...everything exciting happens when I leave this place for a few days!)

[Fancy]

(hides head in shame) send chocolate - fast!!

[Catz]

Finally...someone thinks I am special :sunshine:

[Bsuds]

I see your message was well received jo. We still have a bunch of adversaries out there.

[Jo]

Because this is a community, it depends - as do all communities - on cooperation from everybody.

Sometimes I think people are annoyed when they report a problem and they feel it is not addressed properly. I understand that feeling, you think something is enough of a problem that you report it, but then it seemingly goes ignored. It isn't really ignored, no report is ignored. Reports (other than nuisance reports) are always appreciated, and even if we don't do anything about the reported post, we are at least aware that something is going on in that thread or with that member.

A community is only as good as its members, so working together to keep the place cleared of ridiculous derailments and personal attacks is everybody's job. A lot of you are unbelievably helpful in this regard, and you are appreciated more than you can imagine. Keeping a reasonable perspective is important, though.

Interestingly, there would be no problem on the board with derailments and personal attacks if each and every person simply ignored the person causing the problem. I am told again and again that it isn't possible to ignore it, but I have to ask, why not? It's actually pretty easy, you just keep posting as though the person isn't there, you don't respond in any way. You all know the drill. Ignoring the person, more than any other thing you can do, will make a person either stop with the nonsense or leave.

If you think about it, it's a bit embarrassing to always take the bait when it is dangled. Much more of a slap to the baiter to ignore them than when you respond exactly as they want you to respond. Well, you guys all know this already, though.

I really would be interested in knowing why people can't ignore it. Any takers?

[skydawg]

with a forum of so many members i dont know that you will ever get all of them working together like a community for what reason im not sure. that would be like kelowna as a community having more respect for each other on the road, or motorists/cyclists gettin along or... it just doesnt ever seem to happen. I think one of the main problems here is that with so many members posting on a specific thread there are a few that over rule everyone elses opinions, no matter what a person says there will be that same poster coming back and saying NO NO NO you are wrong( yes i have done this myself but i do my best to do it without trying to make my ideas the only RIGHT one) which in some case makes a person mad, and in some case maybe the person is wrong. I guess if we all post our opinions and do it without trying to de-value other peoples posts, maybe less fighting. I enjoy posting on here and seeing diff sides to things and i have dropped the F-bomb a time or two cuz it just gets annoying seeing peoples posts crapped on like they are the dumbist people on earth. I think its just how North Americans are, we would rather bitch about the problem rather than try to resolve it, we would rather say screw it and not pull over for the 50 cars behind you (when its safe of course) we would rather....
Anyways just a few of my thoughts with no specific members in mind.

[LoneWolf_53]

I really would be interested in knowing why people can't ignore it. Any takers?

Well here's one thought.

For the amount of traffic the board has now there is not enough staff and far too many times that there isn't even a moderator online like right now for example.

I think to some extent what happens is member policing resulting from the frustration of seeing some seemingly get away with things that are contrary to rules yet the posts keep coming and coming.

This would happen far less if there were staff present 24/7 to better monitor and stay on top of things.

The internet doesn't sleep and people all have different habits and lifestyles so the trick is to find various qualified ones who have these differing habits and get the board monitored 24/7.

Humans are imperfect by nature yet when they see an injustice be it perceived or otherwise they have a natural desire to see it dealt with and if it isn't or there are no avenues available to them they'll often take it into their own hands.


Edited to clarify: When I began composing there were no staff online but I see that now there is. :wink:

[Jo]

There's no earthly reason to have staff online 24-7 to monitor this board. There is no reason to have a moderator on board at all times, the board does not require such close scrutiny. Other than occasional times when things seem to go a bit south such as lately, the board runs very well with moderate moderation (moderate moderation?).

Just because something inappropriate is posted doesn't mean a member needs to 'police' it in any way, they simply need to report it and then ignore it. Once one of us sees the report, the post is edited or removed.

[LoneWolf_53]

Well you asked for input so I gave my observation.

Clearly we don't agree on some issues as I feel your post contradicts itself.

As membership continues to grow I predict you'll see more threads going south.

When compared to other places on the net that I've been active with for over a decade I'd also have to say that the report button is a great tool but it is just that "a tool" and no substitute for mods actually keeping an eye on overall posting behavior.

[cv23]

As long as these forums are anonymous there will be little chance of things improving.
Just like government there is no accountability or repercussions for one's actions so why would members here behave themselves? Here even if you go as far as to get banned you can reappear tomorrow under a new alias. Even if you act up and don't actually get banned you can just change your name and continue right along being a horses arse over and over again.
Being held personally accountable for one's actions is the only thing that will result in more respectable behaviour amongst the incorrigibles and that is impossible as long as identities here remain anonymous.

[Jo]

I think you're right, cv and skydawg, and in the end it's more a matter of doing what we can. A good deal would be solved if people remembered that feeding trolls does more to kill a thread than anything else. I do understand the urge to respond, it's natural, but if people could resist it would definitely help. There'll always be the ones who deliberately don't resist because they *want* to stir things up, but if everybody else resisted it makes those ones stand out for what they are.

[logicalview]

Here even if you go as far as to get banned you can reappear tomorrow under a new alias. Even if you act up and don't actually get banned you can just change your name and continue right along being a horses arse over and over again.

When they do change their names you can get duped into thinking your dealing with a new troll.

Interestingly, there would be no problem on the board with derailments and personal attacks if each and every person simply ignored the person causing the problem.

Each and every person?

I think that it should be incumbent on the poster to stay focused on the topic. I can think of a certain poster that flits from thread to thread only to derail the thread fulfilling his self serving agenda, in turn attracting like thinking trolls to stir up the pot. It is difficult to "ignore" posters or groups of posters especially when they are off topic.

One other thing, I don’t see posters as people. Just posters. I have been to G2G’s, had lunches with posters and been to their homes. I have raised charity money and given and received items of value with them. The poster is their online persona. They can be whoever they want and say what they want in relative anonymity. In person, I have never met a poster that I didn’t enjoy and share a few laughs. I see them in the store and sometimes at their places of employment. They are really nice people.

[Jo]

Much as I appreciate the nice nature of the banter I just deleted, I would like to keep this on topic. It's good to read the concerns and suggestions, and it's a lot easier to read them if the thread stays on course.

Yes, each poster should be responsible for keeping their posts civil, however that isn't the nature of discussion boards. Some people do go on a bend on occasion and some people do join boards for the sole purpose of causing trouble, and if other people take the time to report problems as they see them, it is helpful.

Of course nobody *has* to use the report feature. However, there are plenty of members who are happy and willing to let us know when something is amiss, it's much like a real-life community, there are people who want to be involved in this way and people who don't. It works quite well overall, and we appreciate the ones who do help.

I don't have much patience with people who complain bitterly that problem posters are allowed to run amok on the board when the person complaining a) did not bother to contact us via PM or use the report feature, and b) responds in kind.