Site C

[maryjane48]

^^^ Dam's & wind generation are equally inhuman, dams flood large areas. As noise from wind generation scares off wildlife and props kill birds.

i posted a article in different thread that said , from dept of california energy who has studied wind mills , and said there are mitigating factors , that can be used to stop bird deaths , and noise. inform us how much wildlife is killed when a area is flooded , plus how much you willing to pay as a taxpayer to first nations? because if one inch of their land is flooded , it will cost you more than what you would pay for renewable energy. dams are a sign of weakness, when canada should be known as a leader , oh well some people set low goals i guess

[The Green Barbarian]

dams flood land , wind solar does not, whats more important ? land of canada or your wallet? one answer will be selfish, the other will be humane:)

wind and solar hardly generate any electricity compared to other sources but of course, don't mention that either. Any form of energy generation that is intermittent just can't compete with sources like hydro, nuclear etc. because they provide a steady energy source, rain or shine.

[maryjane48]

hardly , we get enough sun in bc for just about everyone to be running off grid , no dams no nuclear , everyone produces their own electricity, which will be the way it will be anyways, like i said if it floods one inch of first nations lands, get ready to have you tax money sucked out of your wallet , it wont be cheap

[The Green Barbarian]

hardly , we get enough sun in bc for just about everyone to be running off grid , no dams no nuclear , everyone produces their own electricity, which will be the way it will be anyways,

facepalm

You really have no clue about what the industrial load is from an industrial park do you? The personal use of electricity is a tiny spit in the ocean compared to the electricity required to run major industry. This is why Spain totally screwed themselves by being the "leader" in "Green Power" and ramped up solar and wind power so much that all of their metal fabrication industries had to move to France for cheaper nuclear power. Even Google, who claims to be so "green", had to move their server farms out of Spain as it became cost prohibitive.

This is why the Green Party and the radical NDP enviros just don't get it. They have no concept of "cost", and their understanding of electricity needs and who uses it is minimal at best. They judge everyone in a vacuum, without considering the big picture. "I can live on the power of wind turbine, so everyone should be able to, even that Aluminum manufacturing plant over there". Without access to cheap energy, you lose industrial output, and when you lose industrial output, you lose jobs. And without jobs, you end up like Spain and Portugal, total losers and the sick men of Europe.

I had a great debate with an "Occupy" guy one time. He said that everyone should live in villages that are only powered by wind turbines. I said "Great" - how do we get the metal, and the energy, to build the wind turbines? We need a lot of electricity to build a wind turbine, and so we'll need another energy source. All the current wind turbines are built in China, and the electricity to build them comes from coal-fired plants".
And who is going to boil the magnet we need in acid? What do we do with the acid when we are done?" He had no clue. He hadn't considered that wind turbines take energy to build. He just thought they magically appeared.

[maryjane48]

wind power can be made in the jetstreams meaning they will pay for themselves fast as the wind never stops there, the sun is a giant fusion reactor that wont run out in say 5 billion years . site c wont be worth the damage

[The Green Barbarian]

wind power can be made in the jetstreams

LOL.

[maryjane48]

laugh all you want , but if site c goes through, you wont be laughing when you see you tax money going to first nations by the dump truck load

[The Green Barbarian]

laugh all you want , but if site c goes through, you wont be laughing when you see you tax money going to first nations by the dump truck load

what does that have to do with jet streams? You made an insanely silly comment that made me laugh, only because with your suggestion, you won't just be blending birds, now you'll be blending jet airplanes. Just so nonsensical.

And please stop with the First Nations threats. You are making them look bad with this extortionist tone. The First Nations deserve to be treated properly and fairly, and they in my experience always act in extremely rational and intelligent ways when they feel they are not being treated fairly, using the law and their excellent judgement. You are representing them as some kind of extortionist gangsters, and its wrong, racist, and awful. STOP NOW.

[TRIX]

I would rather see the payoff going to First Nations than the pay offs going to furthering corporate agendas and Gold plated pensions. The Indians deserve everything they can get from the whitey as we took everything from them. Most importantly, HOPE. It is refreshing to see they have finally gotten judgements for them rather than guilt and death sentences against them. With any luck at all they will forge a political party which pushes their agenda and spiritual base to offset the Christian ideology that has decimated their culture and changed their path forever.

[The Green Barbarian]

I would rather see the payoff going to First Nations than the pay offs going to furthering corporate agendas and Gold plated pensions. The Indians deserve everything they can get from the whitey as we took everything from them. .

Once again - I think it's really bad to use the term "pay-off" in this context, like the First Nations are looking for some kind of bribe money. All they want is to be treated with respect and treated fairly under the law, not just given some kind of bribe. That's just so unfair to represent them in that light. I also think that while you may be assuaging some form of liberal guilt with your rant, it really adds nothing to this discussion to make it an "us vs. them" issue and using terms like "whitey". What the First Nations want, at least from the reading that I have done, is to be treated fairly and with respect. And that's what all Canadians deserve. And when they aren't treated fairly, they use the law as they should, and I am really disappointed in our government when the FA have to go to the courts, as they shouldn't have to, as their rights should be respected. They should be considered and treated fairly from the outset, before any development is even approved. I think we should remove the politics, remove the victimization issue and the use of words like "whitey", and just treat everyone involved in this issue with the respect they deserve, for the greater good of all, because we are all one society, all British Columbians, and all Canadians, and Site C will benefit everyone, as long as everyone, First Nations included, are treated fairly.

[maryjane48]

my dads friend came from fort weir which is where the wac dam first nations had to move to after , their land was flooded , he says it destroyed their way of life and most people turned to drug and booze addictions . sad , but it what can happen when all things affected are not taking into account

[maryjane48]

Once again - I think it's really bad to use the term "pay-off" in this context, like the First Nations are looking for some kind of bribe money. All they want is to be treated with respect and treated fairly under the law, not just given some kind of bribe. That's just so unfair to represent them in that light. I also think that while you may be assuaging some form of liberal guilt with your rant, it really adds nothing to this discussion to make it an "us vs. them" issue and using terms like "whitey". What the First Nations want, at least from the reading that I have done, is to be treated fairly and with respect. And that's what all Canadians deserve. And when they aren't treated fairly, they use the law as they should, and I am really disappointed in our government when the FA have to go to the courts, as they shouldn't have to, as their rights should be respected. They should be considered and treated fairly from the outset, before any development is even approved. I think we should remove the politics, remove the victimization issue and the use of words like "whitey", and just treat everyone involved in this issue with the respect they deserve, for the greater good of all, because we are all one society, all British Columbians, and all Canadians, and Site C will benefit everyone, as long as everyone, First Nations included, are treated fairly.

best post i seen you write

[TRIX]

To Society, I apologize for my covert racism, My intent is to always lean towards the First nation argument because of the wrongs they have had to endure and the positions they now find themselves in. If I offended the Indians I am sorry, If I offended the whites, to bad. We have a lot of apologizing to do.

[The Green Barbarian]

To Society, I apologize for my covert racism, My intent is to always lean towards the First nation argument because of the wrongs they have had to endure and the positions they now find themselves in. If I offended the Indians I am sorry, If I offended the whites, to bad. We have a lot of apologizing to do.

I just think that we shouldn't dwell in the past and continue to stew in anger over past wrongs that were committed, but focus on the future. A future that treats everyone with respect and fairness, including respecting all land rights, and treating people, all people, with the respect they deserve.

[hobbyguy]

lakevixen - let's return to the "art of the possible".

Just how are we supposed to put wind turbines up in the jet streams? Especially as jet streams move hundreds of miles in a day? And that would be one heck of a "kite string" to carry the power back down to where we could use it.

Land based wind turbines actually have a slightly higher environmental footprint than hydro development. [url]http://www.ask.com/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_wind_power?o=2801&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com[url][/url]http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_energy/our-energy-choices/renewable-energy/environmental-impacts-wind-power.html#.VKMrRntUU5A[/url]

So do you destroy more of the environment over a wider area with wind turbines, which are relatively unreliable sources of power, or do you take one are that is smaller in total and disrupt it completely - but in the process create a new environmental resource - a big lake with fish for birds etc. etc. - as benefit?

And here is a part of the way a negotiation could be done to provide a compensatory benefit for FN groups: set it up so that ONLY FN peoples can be fishing/hunting guides on and around the lake. Government stocks the lake. FN own the fishing camps etc.