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NDP spending

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Re: NDP spending

Postby Smurf » Dec 12th, 2012, 8:15 am

Who cares what the source is. Is the information right or wrong. Do you actually have any proof it is wrong.
Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have of changing others.

The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the most of everything that comes their way.
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Re: NDP spending

Postby Rwede » Dec 12th, 2012, 9:47 am

My source is Statistics Canada. Your source is the NDP. Gee, with a leader convicted of and being investigated for several illegal acts, you find the NDP believable? Sheep to slaughter, boys. Sheep to slaughter.
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

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But that is not unusual."
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Re: NDP spending

Postby NAB » Dec 12th, 2012, 9:57 am

Cannot answer the question huh? LOL If you suggest a specific statistic is wrong in your view (even though both originate from the same source), then be man enough to provide the right one as proof - not deflect the discussion to a different statistic entirely.
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Re: NDP spending

Postby Rwede » Dec 12th, 2012, 10:23 am

There's no disputing that BC was last in GDP growth in Canada in the 1990s under Adrian Dix and the NDP.

Here is 2002 - 2010 for the leftist whiners that can't support their own arguments on here:

BC 12.2%
AB 2.8%
SK 14.8%
MB 12.7%
ON 2.4%
PQ 8.4%
NB 17.8%
NS 12.8%
PEI 15.1%
NL 33.7%
CAN 7.3%


Sort it yourselves. If you have the ability, that is.
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

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But that is not unusual."
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Re: NDP spending

Postby NAB » Dec 12th, 2012, 11:05 am

Is that GDP per capita growth? Source?
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Re: NDP spending

Postby Rwede » Dec 12th, 2012, 11:25 am

Yes, it is.

Source is Stats Can and BC Stats.

The NDP sucked and put us DEAD last in the 90s. The Libs have kept us middle of the pack and >67% above the Canadian average.

End of debate. You lose. Go ahead and vote for a return to last place. Save 70¢.
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

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But that is not unusual."
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Re: NDP spending

Postby maple leaf » Dec 12th, 2012, 12:20 pm

2011 Benchmarks: Introduction

Established in 2001, the BC Progress Board tracks changes in the economic performance and social wellbeing of British Columbia. The Board consists of up to 18 business executives and academic leaders from around the province. British Columbia has the natural and human capital to become a leader in Canada. Moreover, the province is well placed to become a global leader. The Board has two mandates:



Measure and benchmark British Columbia's performance over time, and relative to other jurisdictions, in order to determine if BC's competitiveness and quality of life are improving;
Advise the Premier on strategies, policies and actions that could enhance BC's economic and social wellbeing regardless of whether government, business or individual actions are required.
The BC Progress Board's benchmark work is the most comprehensive review available of the state of the province's economy, innovation, education, environment, health and societal performance. Indicators are grouped into two categories:
economy, innovation and education; and,
environment, health and society.
Each category has three core targets and 13 performance indicators. Under the "Economy, Innovation, and Education" category, the core targets are: real GDP per capita, personal income, and jobs. Under the "Environment, Health and Society" category, the core targets are: environmental quality, health outcomes, and social condition.
Historical and Recent Results

British Columbia's outcomes have improved considerably since the BC Progress Board was established in 2001 but, due mainly to similar improvements in other provinces, this has not generally translated into better ranks. The figures to the right present BC's ranks on the six core targets for the most recent year available and for 2000.
The Board's initial goal for the six core targets was to maintain first place in Canada in environmental quality and health outcomes, and to achieve a first- or second-place rank in the other four core targets. Health outcomes and environmental quality have improved significantly since 2000 which has allowed British Columbia to maintain its first-place ranks on these core targets.
British Columbia ranked third for real GDP per person in 1990 and growth well below the national average in the 1990s only cost the province one rank position. British Columbia lost another rank position to fifth by 2010 even though it had above-average growth. Similarly, BC lost one rank position as its real personal disposable income per person fell by four percent between 1990 and 2000 and another in 2008 even though income grew by twenty-four percent between 2000 and 2010.
Employment rates in the last twenty years have moved in three distinct bands that rarely overlap. Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba dominate the top three positions and appear likely to continue to. British Columbia had strong employment growth between 2001 and 2007 but its employment rate remained at least four percentage points away from the top two provinces.
Ranks for the crime, income assistance and LICO components of the social condition index have not changed for six to eleven years even though rates improved between 2000 and 2010.

Reporting Framework

The BC Progress Board issues benchmark reports that compare BC to other jurisdictions, and, within BC, compare the province's major metropolitan areas to each other and to the non-metropolitan area of the province (Regional BC).
External Performance Review

The external performance review includes sections on "Economy, Innovation, and Education," and "Environment, Health and Society" and compares BC to Canada's other provinces, to other jurisdictions in North America, and to OECD countries. Six core targets and 26 performance indicators are used to assess the province's economic performance and social wellbeing.

Economy, Innovation and Education
Environment, Health and Society
Internal Performance Review

The internal performance review provides regional comparisons within BC. It has the same two categories as the external review: "Economy, Innovation, and Education" and "Environment, Health and Society." For the first category, the internal review tracks ten regional indicators, and for the second it tracks eight. The internal review compares the major metropolitan areas and Regional BC and provides detail on BC's development regions and health authorities.

Economy, Innovation and Education

Metro Vancouver, which is identical to the Vancouver Census Metropolitan Area (CMA) outperforms Regional BC on seven of ten regional Economy, Innovation and Education indicators. They are: jobs; employment income; economic dependency ratio; secondary school graduates; university completion; science employment; and new business formation. Although close, Regional BC has an edge on housing starts and non-residential building permits. Regional BC has much higher retail sales per capita than does Vancouver.
Environment, Health and Society

Metro Vancouver and Regional BC are more closely matched in the eight Environment, Health and Society indicators than in the Economy, Innovation and Education comparisons. Regional BC and Vancouver are essentially tied on cancer mortality and low birth weight rate. Vancouver has the edge on life expectancy; crime; employment insurance; and income assistance.
December 19, 2011
http://www.bcprogressboard.com/2011Repo ... intro.html
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Re: NDP spending

Postby flamingfingers » Dec 12th, 2012, 1:34 pm

The Progress Board was something premier photo op killed off shortly after she got her claws sharpened. Looks like she killed it off very soon after they came out with these charts.
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Professional people spend their work days actually working... not posting inane drivel on forums.
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Re: NDP spending

Postby Rwede » Dec 12th, 2012, 4:13 pm

Real Per Capita GDP Growth 2002 - 2010

NL 33.7%
NB 17.8%
PEI 15.1%
SK 14.8%
NS 12.8%
MB 12.7%
BC 12.2%
PQ 8.4%
AB 2.8%
ON 2.4%

CAN 7.3%



Real Per Capita GDP Growth 1992 - 2000

Nfld: 33.6%
SK: 27.3%
AB: 27%
ON: 24.2%
PQ: 22.3%
NB: 21.6%
PEI: 18.6%
MB: 17.5%
NS: 16.2%
BC: 5.3%
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

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But that is not unusual."
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Re: NDP spending

Postby George+ » Dec 12th, 2012, 4:50 pm

Maybe, weedy , ya should try looking at more than one source??
Or have ya been cherry picking figures yourself?

I’ve been asked many many times why I won't join the B.C. Liberal Party. My answer has been: how can I join a party that is so lacking in integrity?
Recently I read an article written by West Vancouver-Capilano Liberal MLA Ralph Sultan in the Global Chinese Press.
I was quite shocked to find that after 10 years in the B.C. Liberal government, this Harvard graduate and former Royal Bank chief economist could write such a lousy piece.
Earlier, NDP finance critic Bruce Ralston had released an article comparing the economic and employments records of the NDP government between 1991 and 2001 and the B.C. Liberal government between 2001 and 2010.
After reading it, Sultan released a rebuttal, which claimed, "It is a piece of NDP sophistry," and that Ralston’s "comment distorts facts, and (is) very irresponsible."
Sultan also stated, “Anyone can selectively pick the good-looking figures...but, generally speaking, no matter how you measure it, objectively, the NDP economic record at that time is regretful”¦"
Let us compare the objective economic figures of the two articles, and see which is "sophistry" and “reckless".
Ralston cited the related economic figures: "On the economy, the average economic growth for 2001-2010 is 2.2%, versus 2.7% GDP growth from 1991-2001. The best years for economic growth under the B.C. Liberals were 2005 and 2006, with GDP 4.4% increase. This is lower than the two best years' growth under the NDP, 1993 and 2000, when the economy increased by 4.5% and 4.6% respectively."
Our export and trade deficits have worsened substantially under the B.C. Liberals. From 2001 to 2010, our exports declined 0.4 percent, whereas over the same period, Alberta's exports increased 5.3 percent, Saskatchewan's rose 10.4 percent, and Manitoba's went up 1.3 percent.
B.C. was the only western province to post a negative growth rate over the decade.
In 2000, B.C. had $33.6 billion in exports. Since then, there has only been one year of growth (2004: $34.1 billion). In 2009, exports hit a 10-year low at $25 billion.
On wood products between 2001 to 2009, the average decline in B.C. exports was eight percent. On pulp and paper products, the average decline in B.C. exports was five percent.
When the B.C. Liberals came to power in 2001, B.C.'s trade deficit (in goods and services, internationally and domestically) was equivalent to two percent of gross domestic product. By 2008, the last year for which we have full data, it had increased to seven percent.
In Sultan’s article, other than subjective self-praise, there is only one paragraph that mentions an objective statistic on economic development: "However, after the Liberals formed government, the world situation was bad. B.C.'s GDP increase was 50% more than the world’s GDP. From what I see, and from most objective observers’ point of view, this indicates that the B.C. Liberals’ economic management has been way better than the NDP's."
After reading this remark, I wonder whether you would be tickled pink like I am. The figures provided by the NDP have compared the average GDP growth over the last two decades governed by the two parties.
As well, Ralston compared B.C.'s record with that of other Canadian western provinces (which also rely on natural resources).
Yet Sultan only compared B.C.'s record to the world GDP, and then concluded that “the B.C. Liberals’ economic management has been way better than the NDP's."
My goodness! Isn’t it clear who is using "sophistry" and who is being "reckless"?
Sultan also declared: "Under the NDP government, individual average income only increased 18%, whereas in the last decade under the Liberals, the figure is 38%."
I haven’t verified Sultan’s figures but what they reflect is that under the B.C. Liberals, the wealthy have profited until their pockets bulge. The CEO of B.C. Ferries has had his annual remuneration increase from a quarter-million to a million dollars. The B.C. Liberal-appointed directors on all Crown corporations and institutions have seen their remuneration rise several-fold.
Then, there are all the handsome wage increases of the premier, cabinet ministers, and their deputies. There are also all those goodies to big corporations, those public-private partnerships, and megaprojects—and those who benefited from them.
All the while, wages of the middle and working classes remained stagnant.
Under the B.C. Liberals, the luxury-car tax has been reduced many times, whereas British Columbians must pay a lot more for gas, hydro, transit, tuition, and medical-services premiums.
Sultan criticized Ralston for "selectively" picking figures. In fact, he was merely pointing at himself.
The West Vancouver-Capilano MLA wrote: "In 1991 (the year before the NDP formed government), there were 35,000 people who moved to B.C. from other parts of Canada. In the last year of the NDP governance, 15,000 moved out. It was the time when the call to move out was loud and clear. The latest national migration statistics indicated that 7,500 people moved from other parts of Canada to B.C., and immigrants arriving here all over the world have increased fourfold."
Clear-headed readers can see how selective the above paragraph is. It’s like you picked a student with the lowest marks and then condemned the entire class for failing the exam.
Besides, the NDP formed government in 1991, not 1992.
Last November, the NDP issued a statement, which provided clear and objective figures for comparison: "Between 2001 and 2009, an average net figure of 6,200 people moved to B.C. from other provinces. This compares with an average net figure of 13,000 per year between 1991 and 2001, when Canadians were flocking to the province."
What Sultan’s article has shown is that the B.C. Liberals cannot table any objective figures to rebut the fact that the NDP had a better economic record than they did in government.
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Re: NDP spending

Postby goatboy » Dec 12th, 2012, 5:03 pm

George+ wrote:Maybe, weedy , ya should try looking at more than one source??
Or have ya been cherry picking figures yourself?



And then George ironically posts a quote from one source........................ who happens to be........Gabriel Yiu ,former NDP candidate in Vancouver-Fraserview. That woudln't be cherry picking would it George?
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Re: NDP spending

Postby George+ » Dec 12th, 2012, 5:29 pm

Only if ya can counter his facts.
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Re: NDP spending

Postby goatboy » Dec 12th, 2012, 5:33 pm

George+ wrote:Only if ya can counter his facts.


And do we have any idea where his "facts" came from? No, didn't think so. Guess he could have told us the moon was made of cheese and we would have the same references to go from. He uses a whole lot of numbers but doesn't cite where any of them came from. So I'll take his "facts" with a grain of salt if I have no idea where they came from.
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Re: NDP spending

Postby George+ » Dec 12th, 2012, 5:34 pm

I'm sure ya have seen this before and they even cite where the stats came from:
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2009/04/23/BCEcon/
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Re: NDP spending

Postby goatboy » Dec 12th, 2012, 6:32 pm

George+ wrote:I'm sure ya have seen this before and they even cite where the stats came from:
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2009/04/23/BCEcon/


Personally, I think that the ability of a Provincial Government to effect GDP within any reasonable measure of time during their tenure is questionable. What happens today may not be felt in true GDP terms until years down the road, both good and bad. To use GDP as a measure of either party is probably not a representative snap shot of their overall leadership or lack thereof.
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