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Christy shares her thoughts

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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby flamingfingers » Dec 30th, 2012, 8:26 pm

^^ I am not entirely sure we are on the same page here SL - the contracts that the Gordo ripped up were within the public realm and actually involved 'negotiations' while the IPP contracts were not in the public realm and only involved the Gordo/Christie Libs signing these contracts without the light of public scrutiny. What other billion dollar deals have been made without public knowledge? Makes one shudder!!!
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby Artofthedeal » Dec 30th, 2012, 10:56 pm

flamingfingers wrote:^^ I am not entirely sure we are on the same page here SL - the contracts that the Gordo ripped up were within the public realm and actually involved 'negotiations' while the IPP contracts were not in the public realm and only involved the Gordo/Christie Libs signing these contracts without the light of public scrutiny. What other billion dollar deals have been made without public knowledge? Makes one shudder!!!


Yes lets blow up all the infrastructure that's been built and rebuild it with NDP sponsored unuin labour. BRILLIANT!
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby Gone_Fishin » Dec 31st, 2012, 11:45 am

flamingfingers wrote:^^ I am not entirely sure we are on the same page here SL - the contracts that the Gordo ripped up were within the public realm and actually involved 'negotiations' while the IPP contracts were not in the public realm and only involved the Gordo/Christie Libs signing these contracts without the light of public scrutiny. What other billion dollar deals have been made without public knowledge? Makes one shudder!!!



One shudders when one examines the IPP leases granted by Adrian Dix and the NDP in the 1990s. Those water leases were granted by the NDP with NO expiry or renewal dates. Yes, Dix and the NDP were brilliant enough to grant leases in perpetuity to IPP operators. With NO business experience in the NDP ranks, it's no wonder that they did something SO STUPID. The IPP holders now have rights over those waterways forever, essentially stripping any ability of the government to negotiate better terms for taxpayers or terminate undersireable leases.

Fortunately, when the BC Libs came to power, they quickly changed leases to 25 - 40 year terms to grant a level of protection to BCers.

Dix and the NDP once again demonstrated why they are not fit to govern this province.
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby maple leaf » Dec 31st, 2012, 11:52 am

The BC Liberals are again misrepresenting their record and the NDP position, in the face of widespread legitimate opposition to their giveaway of BC's river and waterways to private interests.

Here are the facts:

The BC Liberals have sold the water rights to 120 BC rivers and waterways. Over 550 water license applications are in process.

Even after their 30-40 year contracts end, private firms, not British Colombians, own the generating plants, retain first dibs on the rights of water, and are free to sell the power to the highest bidder, Canadian or American.

IPPs already are driving up hydro prices. Brian Wallace, legal counsel for the Joint Industry Electricity Steering Committee says BC Hydro customers could take a yearly hit of $400 million from the private power contracts.

The BC Liberals changed the rules to give private power developers a monopoly on run of the river projects. The BC Liberals prevented BC Hydro from competing with IPPS.

The BC Liberals passed a law to override local and municipal concerns and prevent local communities from using their legitimate zoning and environmental powers to remedy bad projects.

BC Liberals are selling our waterways to Liberal friends and insiders. IPPs have funneled huge donations to the Campbell Liberals. Firms like Brookfield, Plutonic Power are major donors to the Liberal party. According to Elections BC, Plutonic Power has been an active Liberal donor since May 2006, making 22 separate donations totaling $51,906. Between 2006 and 2007 Brookfield contributed $51,400. In total, private power producers have flooded the Campbell Liberals with over $800,000 in donations.

Private producers admit they've stacked their payrolls with BC Liberal Party insiders to give them the inside track with government officials. For example: Robert Poore, former executive assistant to Revenue Minister Rick Thorpe. And Tom Sayer, former policy co-ordination and issues management chief for Premier Gordon Campbell, are now at Plutonic Power

The NDP is calling for a moratorium pending a full review of the cumulative environmental impacts and anticipated supply and demand. Existing contracts will be honoured. Certain run of the river can make sense if the environment is protected, the local community or First Nation benefits from the project, and British Columbians retain ownership of the waterway.

Esteemed Canadian scientists Dr. Gordon F. Hartman and Otto Langer have vocalized major concerns about BC Liberals' private river power gold rush.

"It's green alright. Because green is the colour of money." - Dr. Gordon F. Hartman (Save our Rivers)

"In a broader environmental sense, we are very pleased with many parts of the NDP platform - including their protection of BC Hydro and keeping it public and protected, our best tool for fighting climate change." - Joe Foy, Western Canada Wilderness Committee [Public Eye
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby NAB » Dec 31st, 2012, 11:58 am

The leases are not the problem FD, but apparently some here are not bright enough to research and understand what the real problem(s) is/are.

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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby Gone_Fishin » Dec 31st, 2012, 1:39 pm

The NDP have released another error-ridden, factually suspect and simply dishonest analysis on clean energy policy, posing it as the “truth.”

Let’s look at the claims, and the facts:

NDP CLAIM: The BC Liberals have sold the water rights to 120 BC rivers and waterways. Over 550 water license applications are in process.
WRONG. No rivers have been sold. The Crown awards water licenses for fixed lease periods to produce clean power for British Columbians. The public maintains ownership of the water and the river at all times.

NDP CLAIM: Even after their 30-40 year contracts end, private firms, not British Columbians, own the generating plants, retain first dibs on the rights of water, and are free to sell the power to the highest bidder, Canadian or American.
WRONG. The Crown is the owner of the resource and in fact after leases expire the assets revert back to the Crown. Under the NDP there were no time limits on the licenses they granted for their numerous run of river IPPs; under the BC Liberals there are now time limits of a maximum of 40 years.

NDP CLAIM: IPPs already are driving up hydro prices. Brian Wallace, legal counsel for the Joint Industry Electricity Steering Committee says BC Hydro customers could take a yearly hit of $400 million from the private power contracts.
WRONG: The NDP contracted with IPPs throughout their term – 15 of the run-of-river projects operating today were inherited from the NDP. The fact is that, regardless of who builds these projects, new power requires new investments by ratepayers. The purpose of the Calls for Power is to get the best, most competitive price possible, and the BC Utilities Commission is an independent body who reviews that process to ensure ratepayers get the best value. BC Hydro rates remain among the lowest in North America.

NDP CLAIM: The BC Liberals changed the rules to give private power developers a monopoly on run of the river projects. The BC Liberals prevented BC Hydro from competing with IPPS.
WRONG. BC Hydro continues to invest in and expand their assets. Nearly $9-billion will have been invested in BC Hydro assets between 2001 and 2010, double what the NDP invested during their term. And we are looking at new, publicly owned BC Hydro projects like the Site C dam – a project the NDP has already said we don’t need and they would not build.

NDP CLAIM: The BC Liberals passed a law to override local and municipal concerns and prevent local communities from using their legitimate zoning and environmental powers to remedy bad projects.

MISLEADING: Meeting our electricity demands is a provincial issue and decisions need to balance the interest of all British Columbians. Amendments allow for that balance. Communities are consulted as part of the Environmental Assessment process and as part of the multiple other federal and provincial approval processes. Finally, let’s remember that BC Hydro power projects have NEVER been subject to local zoning.

NDP CLAIM: BC Liberals are selling our waterways to Liberal friends and insiders. IPPs have funneled huge donations to the Campbell Liberals. Firms like Brookfield, Plutonic Power are major donors to the Liberal party.

HYPOCRISY: BC’s environmental policy has received support from a vast array of advocates for the environment – not just clean energy producers, but significant members of the environmental movement and the academic community. Of course, given that the NDP seems to find donations so significant to establishing policies, it certainly would explain their position on green energy given that since 2005 they received nearly $200,000 from COPE 378, the big labour union who is fronting numerous anti-clean energy misinformation groups such as BC Citizens for Public Power.

NDP CLAIM: Private producers admit they've stacked their payrolls with BC Liberal Party insiders to give them the inside track with government officials.

PERSONAL ATTACKS (AGAIN): One again, the NDP goes for personal attacks against the reputations of individuals instead of debating the facts.

NDP CLAIM: The NDP is calling for a moratorium pending a full review of the cumulative environmental impacts and anticipated supply and demand. Existing contracts will be honoured. Certain run of the river can make sense if the environment is protected, the local community or First Nation benefits from the project, and British Columbians retain ownership of the waterway.

JUST PLAIN DISHONEST AND RECKLESS: A moratorium is a moratorium. That means an end to new green power and an end to billions in investment that have already created over 1,000 jobs in our rural communities. There is nothing in between.
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby flamingfingers » Dec 31st, 2012, 2:42 pm

FD wrote:

The NDP have released another error-ridden, factually suspect and simply dishonest analysis on clean energy policy, posing it as the “truth.”


And guess where he got these 'facts' from:

http://www.bcliberals.com/stop_the_smea ... __on_power

:dyinglaughing: :dyinglaughing: :dyinglaughing:
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby Gone_Fishin » Dec 31st, 2012, 3:23 pm

As opposed to the "facts" that were the source of Mapleleaf's bullcrap? She and you are a LOT alike ff. Funny, isn't it? :127:

http://www.bcndp.ca/newsroom/truth-abou ... vate-power
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby flamingfingers » Dec 31st, 2012, 3:57 pm

^^ Inane post warning!!^^
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby Logitack » Dec 31st, 2012, 4:02 pm

FD is your typical lib bot, deny deny deny all current lib'*bleep* transgression, accuse the ndp of all their wrong doings from a decade ago... good job!
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything. I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete douchebags.
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby LoneWolf_53 » Dec 31st, 2012, 4:06 pm

Fisher-Dude wrote:As opposed to the "facts" that were the source of Mapleleaf's bullcrap? She and you are a LOT alike ff. Funny, isn't it? :127:

http://www.bcndp.ca/newsroom/truth-abou ... vate-power

Same fanatical obsessive compulsive gene pool.
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby maple leaf » Dec 31st, 2012, 4:14 pm

Fisher-Dude wrote:NDP CLAIM: The BC Liberals changed the rules to give private power developers a monopoly on run of the river projects. The BC Liberals prevented BC Hydro from competing with IPPS.
WRONG. BC Hydro continues to invest in and expand their assets. Nearly $9-billion will have been invested in BC Hydro assets between 2001 and 2010, double what the NDP invested during their term. And we are looking at new, publicly owned BC Hydro projects like the Site C dam – a project the NDP has already said we don’t need and they would not build.


I'll accept the claims from my post ,before some guy's from Fernie.
Organization and financial performance
In 1980 the BC Government established the BC Utilities Commission (BCUC) to regulate public energy utilities and to act as an independent, quasi-judicial regulatory agency regarding energy rates. In 2003 the BC government passed several pieces of legislation to redefine and regulate power utilities in British Columbia. The Transmission Corporation Act created the British Columbia Transmission Corporation (BCTC) which plans, operates and maintains the transmission system owned by BC Hydro. The BC Hydro Public Power Legacy and Heritage Contract Act, while recognizing the value of low cost electricity produced by BC Hydro's existing "heritage assets," requires BC Hydro to meet the province's future needs for additional power through private developers and operators. These acts in conjunction with the government’s 2002 BC Energy Plan have allowed Independent Power Producers (IPPs) to sell power to BC Hydro, which is required by law to buy it from them even at a loss.[13] In 2011 BC Hydro spent $567.4 million on electricity from IPPs. In 2013 those purchases will be $781.8 million in 2013 and $939.8 million in 2014.[14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Hydro


Fisher-Dude wrote:NDP CLAIM: The BC Liberals passed a law to override local and municipal concerns and prevent local communities from using their legitimate zoning and environmental powers to remedy bad projects.

MISLEADING: Meeting our electricity demands is a provincial issue and decisions need to balance the interest of all British Columbians. Amendments allow for that balance. Communities are consulted as part of the Environmental Assessment process and as part of the multiple other federal and provincial approval processes. Finally, let’s remember that BC Hydro power projects have NEVER been subject to local zoning.


Bill 30 & IPPs - provincial government overrides local zoning;
Bill 30, 3rd reading, BC Legislature, 15-May-2006

Hansard
Monday, 15-Mar-2006

Context: Bill 30 is called the Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 2), 2006. It contains modifications to a number of statutes. Bills like this are frequently referred to as "housekeeping" bills, but unfortunately are sometimes used to slip highly consequential legislative amendments through in such a way that nobody notices.

Section 56 of Bill 30 makes changes to the Utilities Commission Act (UCA) that appear to have the effect of protecting independent power project (IPP) proposals from obstruction by local governments.

Leonard Krog spoke strongly against the s.56 changes at second reading on May 11. Here are some excerpts from the May 15 Hansard transcript of the debate on s.56. The full transcript on s.56 follows. At the end, as you will see, s.56 was passed, with yea-nay delineation on party lines.



Bill 30, 2nd reading, BC Legislature, 11-May-2006

Hansard
Thursday, 11-Mar-2006

Well, the effect of this innocuous language is essentially to say to the municipalities and local governments of British Columbia: "When it comes to producing power, any zoning you wish to pass gets trumped." Leonard Krog in the BC Legislature, 11-May-2006

COMMENT:Bill 30 is called the Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 2), 2006. This is more Liberal hide-the-dirt legislation - it's a similar deception to that in which ownership restrictions on Terasen shares were removed, for example.

During the campaigns against the GSX Pipeline, Port Alberni Generation Project (PAGP), the possibility of a gas-fired generation project in North Cowichan, and the Vancouver Island Generation Project (VIGP)-Duke Point Power (DPP), matters often came to a head over local zoning.

Coalbed methane threatens local jurisdictions across the province, and in 2003 the Union of BC Municipalities (UBCM) passed a resolution brought by the Comox-Strathcona Regional District demanding that the provincial government put all coalbed methane development work and issuance of permits on hold.

With Bill 30, the BC Government is setting itself up to head off future local objections to power projects by means of zoning. Under this legislation, there is every likelihood that PAGP would have been a done deal.

In BC Hydro's F2006 Call for Power, there are two coal-fired generation projects. Will the people of Princeton and the Similkameen or of Tumbler Ridge have any voice with approval of these projects, if BC Hydro selects one or both of them?

Leonard Krog, NDP MLA for Nanaimo, spoke to these provisions in Bill 30 in the Legislature on Thursday. What follows is from Hansard.

I didn't copy the full hansard documents for space but you can read them at this site.

http://www.sqwalk.com/current/000768.html
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby Gone_Fishin » Dec 31st, 2012, 4:32 pm

Are you lady (ies?) sure you want to bring up Hydro and what the NDP did?

And what do ya know, Sihota is still there calling the shots as president of the NDP, paid for by your union dues. Sihota and Dix, birds of a feather flock together, both with no regard for the laws of this country.


BC Hydro appointment

In 1991 Sihota helped his friend Dhaliwal become appointed to the board of B.C. Hydro in 1991, after Dhaliwal provided Sihota with a substantial mortgage guarantee.[3] The opposition BC Liberals then requested an investigation by Conflict commissioner Ted Hughes. Hughes later found that Sihota had not been in a conflict of interest. However Hughes also said at the time of the finding that had the new conflict of interest laws been in place during Dhaliwal's appointment in 1991, Sihota would have been found to be in a conflict of interest.[4]



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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby flamingfingers » Dec 31st, 2012, 4:54 pm

FD wrote:
Are you lady (ies?) sure you want to bring up Hydro and what the NDP did?

And what do ya know, Sihota is still there


1: In 1991? Completely and totally irrelevant. Good Lord man! Over 2 decades ago!!

2: Moe Sihota 'still there' - at BC Hydro?? Steaming pile of BS.

BTW - why would you care if we are or are not 'ladies' or are you just pushing your misogynist crap again?

Another BTW - I haven't paid union dues for over 17 years... :sillygrin:
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Re: Christy shares her thoughts...

Postby grammafreddy » Dec 31st, 2012, 5:08 pm

Moe is another Christy - and about as honest and trustworthy. They are like identical twins raised by different families.

And yes ... he is still there behind the scenes pulling strings. Not BC Hydro scenes and strings, FF ... but of course you know that, don't you?
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