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NDP Makes More Promises to Union

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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby logicalview » Feb 12th, 2013, 11:45 pm

George+ wrote:Yes.
You keep spouting the same nonsense, again and again.


Image

Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the dumbest communist of all? Why George of course! He keeps spouting the same nonsense!
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby Urbane » Feb 13th, 2013, 10:32 am

Yup. Same old nonsense. As soon as it's pointed out how wrong it is to use students as pawns he just falls back on the same old union rhetoric. No mention of the kids; just the power of the union.
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby George+ » Feb 13th, 2013, 10:50 am

As any good teacher knows.

Teacher's working conditions. are student's working conditions.
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby Urbane » Feb 13th, 2013, 11:17 am

    George+ wrote:As any good teacher knows.

    Teacher's working conditions. are student's working conditions.
LOL . . . any good teacher knows that students needing help "out of regular classroom hours" should receive it and any good teacher knows that promises to students should be kept. As usual your union zealotry trumps what's good for kids. As for those "working conditions" I've already destroyed your arguments about those "one size fits all" restrictive hard class limits that are counterproductive. Flexibility is needed; not more rules.
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby George+ » Feb 13th, 2013, 1:22 pm

Urbane, you are living still in the 50s and 60s.

The class sizes and number of challenged students per class is not going
to go away, either.

Figure out how to make it work well for all.

That IS what real bargaining is all about. For
the good of teachers and students.

P.S. You have not "destroyed" anything.... except in your own mind.
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby Urbane » Feb 13th, 2013, 2:02 pm

    George+ wrote:Urbane, you are living still in the 50s and 60s.

    The class sizes and number of challenged students per class is not going
    to go away, either.

    Figure out how to make it work well for all.

    That IS what real bargaining is all about. For
    the good of teachers and students.

    P.S. You have not "destroyed" anything.... except in your own mind.
And yet you promote the union-management model from the 50's and 60's. Funny. You have no answer to counter former NDP Labour Minister Bill King's point about strikes not being appropriate for teachers because they only harm students and you can't counter my arguments against the hard and fast "one size fits all" rules on class size and composition. So you just fall back on the old union rhetoric. You are definitely guilty of being circuitous.
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby George+ » Feb 13th, 2013, 5:05 pm

There was no union management model in the 60s.
That was the problem.
You have presented nothing that has not been countered many times
.ZZZZZZZ....
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby Urbane » Feb 13th, 2013, 5:19 pm

    George+ wrote:There was no union management model in the 60s.
    That was the problem.
    You have presented nothing that has not been countered many times
    .ZZZZZZZ....
There was a union management model in the 60's but not in education and my point, as usual, sailed right over your head. That old industrial union management model does not work in education and even former NDP Labour Minister Bill King agreed:

Labour minister Bill King, the robust railroader from Revelstoke, believed that teacher strikes made no sense. They didn’t hurt the government, or the general public. They only harmed students.


Pretending that unions were developed after the 1960's or simply not knowing the history is holding you back George. You should read up a bit. It was Vander Scam who was instrumental in unionizing teachers in the late 1980's giving us that industrial union management model that Bill King warned against.

And no, you haven't successfully countered my arguments at all. You just respond by telling us that the union is here to stay but I'll remind you again that "just because you have the right doesn't make it right." Time to start thinking about the kids for a change. It's not all about the union George.
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby George+ » Feb 13th, 2013, 8:14 pm

And you can't see beyond your administrative nose.
That what is good for teachers is also good for students.

There were no essential services in the 60s
Times have changed and you are still stuck half a century back.
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby Urbane » Feb 13th, 2013, 8:59 pm

    George+ wrote:And you can't see beyond your administrative nose.
    That what is good for teachers is also good for students.

    There were no essential services in the 60s
    Times have changed and you are still stuck half a century back.
Yes, teachers helping students beyond the regular school hours is good for teachers and good for students. Teachers attending graduation ceremonies is good for teachers and good for students. Ditto for all of the other things that are eliminated with these counterproductive job actions. Once again you help prove my point. Thanks!
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby kibbs » Feb 14th, 2013, 6:05 am

Happy V.D. It s a great day for some civil disobedience .I will teach my kid today how unions used to do good and are now the poop in our constipated education system.
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby logicalview » Feb 14th, 2013, 7:18 am

kibbs wrote:Happy V.D. It s a great day for some civil disobedience .I will teach my kid today how unions used to do good and are now the poop in our constipated education system.


And it's idiots like George who keep the tanks topped up with poop, rather than flushing it away.
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby Urbane » Feb 14th, 2013, 9:01 am

George and his fellow union zealots are still living in the 50's and 60's with the old industrial union management model that clearly doesn't work in education. Time for them to join the 21st century and work with government on behalf of kids rather than always opposing government and using students as pawns.
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby George+ » Feb 14th, 2013, 10:26 am

Dream on. Urbane.
Your vision is the "beg and plead" for salary/benefits model of the 50/60s.
Didn't work then- won't work now.

The union model has produced tremendous improvements for students AND teachers.

AND you do not seem to understand the term VOLUNTARY activities.
The way around this is to start paying teachers for ALL their extra time.

LV-still nothing intelligent from you-(this should be good for more silly nonsense.)
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Re: NDP Makes More Promises to Union

Postby Urbane » Feb 14th, 2013, 11:40 am

    George+ wrote:Dream on. Urbane.
    Your vision is the "beg and plead" for salary/benefits model of the 50/60s.
    Didn't work then- won't work now.

    The union model has produced tremendous improvements for students AND teachers.

    AND you do not seem to understand the term VOLUNTARY activities.
    The way around this is to start paying teachers for ALL their extra time.

    LV-still nothing intelligent from you-(this should be good for more silly nonsense.)
How about marking papers? Perhaps the union could negotiate a "per paper" rate or would you prefer some sort of weekly or monthly rate for marking? How about extra help out of regular classroom hours? Surely that's as important as the other "voluntary" activities that you mention so do you want extra pay for that? Teachers attending the graduation ceremony could be paid an "appearance fee" to compensate them as well? What a crock.

George, your union/management world is ugly. If teachers are feeling a lack of respect these days, which the union claims comes from the government, it's because of people like you, the union zealots, who are making teachers look bad in the eyes of the public. As a retired educator I truly resent your proposal to compensate teachers for what are now voluntary activities. I was compensated well, as are teachers today, but there is something far more important about being a teacher than trying to wring every last dollar, and more, from the taxpayer. Time to extricate yourself from your selfish way of thinking and start thinking about the kids.
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