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More union pigs at the trough!

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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Gone_Fishin » Dec 5th, 2012, 1:35 pm

Rwede wrote:

Does the dog feel entitled to? :dyinglaughing:


ukcanuck wrote:That would be entitled to[o] ...you must have gone to a private school :dyinglaughing:



Incorrect on the union boy's part. In order for the sentence to use "too", it would have to say "Does the dog feel entitled, too?" with a comma after entitled. In RW's post, the sentence is correctly composed, and is short for "Does the dog feel entitled to (lick his testicles, just as a union member feels entitled to theft from taxpayers)?"

The union boy must have graduated rather low in his class, and ended up in a public sector union job as a result. Maybe he had George for a teacher in Rutland!!!!!!!!! :dyinglaughing:
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby ukcanuck » Dec 5th, 2012, 1:44 pm

Veovis wrote:
So people in the public sector getting "sick" on every second Friday for 1 and a half years is normal to you?

What's not normal is trying to pass oneself off as credible and the using anecdotal evidence as an argument ...

That a specific pattern to when a person calls in sick is "random" and not an abuse.

Random means no pattern doh!

The fact that many public employees that I have seen will regularly take 2 days off but never 3 as they would need proof.

More anecdotal crap...has it occurred to you that perhaps its just easier to come back to work still sick than bother to try to get a doctors appointment that sometimes takes days to get in for a piece of paper ??

How about the fact that public employees have managed to get approved long term sick leaves because it was too stressful to come to work and go to sleep. That's right, their job was to sleep at work and it was "too stressful"

I don't even know what this means, I think I need a sick day to get over the headache I'm getting here...
...What public service job requires sleeping?

You're right, no abuse happening at all. This happens at a higher cost ratio in the public sector vs the private due to the facts that it's easier to get away with when you have unions that will attack businesses because they didn't feel that employee making themselves "hung-over" counted as sick time.(it really shouldn't), add to the fact that most teachers and public employees get more time a year and have it banked/carried over year after year means an exponential cost increase over time.


I never said that no one ever called in sick to go shopping. I said statistically there is no more fraud in the public sector than the private one and no one here so far has presented anything but BS and gossip as proof


You may want to believe that the cost difference isn't there, but it is, it's not just "altered statistics".

I'm beginning to think for you it's "altered" states lol ...
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby ukcanuck » Dec 5th, 2012, 2:03 pm

Fisher-Dude wrote:

Incorrect on the union boy's part. In order for the sentence to use "too", it would have to say "Does the dog feel entitled, too?" with a comma after entitled. In RW's post, the sentence is correctly composed, and is short for "Does the dog feel entitled to (lick his testicles, just as a union member feels entitled to theft from taxpayers)?"

The union boy must have graduated rather low in his class, and ended up in a public sector union job as a result. Maybe he had George for a teacher in Rutland!!!!!!!!! :dyinglaughing:


"Does the dog feel entitled to? " Is an incomplete sentence. Every sentence needs a subject and a complete predicate
The "dog" [subject] "feels entitled" [predicate] to what? It's an incomplete predicate...

It only works if its too, as in: " Does the dog feel entitled [to lick his testicles as well]

In which case yes it would need a comma, but hey, no one is perfect. Right?

Btw I don't know who George is but I think I might like him better than some people posting on this topic....
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Rwede » Dec 5th, 2012, 2:08 pm

This debate looks pretty dismal for the guy that couldn't make it in the private sector. Trying to say "The statistics don't show abuse" when the statistics show abuse just ain't cuttin' it with everyone else.

I guess we could all say Adrian Dix didn't do anything wrong when he forged a memo to obstruct a criminal investigation, but no matter how many times we say it, it wouldn't change the facts.

The union guy can't even parse a sentence properly. Capitalizing 'Is" is, in fact, a fail.

One thing you're right about though: you and George would get along just fine.
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby ukcanuck » Dec 5th, 2012, 2:22 pm

Rwede wrote:This debate looks pretty dismal for the guy that couldn't make it in the private sector. Trying to say "The statistics don't show abuse" when the statistics show abuse just ain't cuttin' it with everyone else.

I guess we could all say Adrian Dix didn't do anything wrong when he forged a memo to obstruct a criminal investigation, but no matter how many times we say it, it wouldn't change the facts.

The union guy can't even parse a sentence properly. Capitalizing 'Is" is, in fact, a fail.

One thing you're right about though: you and George would get along just fine.
:triedtothink:
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Veovis » Dec 5th, 2012, 2:33 pm

ukcanuck also agrees that random means there shouldn't be a pattern but when patterns are found calls it anecdotal evidence and knows so little about the sectors he is defending he doesn't know that sleep shifts are real positions.

Sorry, Ukcanuck, but your lack of knowledge and experience does not mean other people are wrong, it means you need to grow up and get better educated.

Here's another pattern I have personally witnessed occur with employees as well. They are scheduled for Monday and Tuesday, have Weds and Thursday scheduled off, and are due back Friday. They called in sick, Monday and Tuesday, and Friday, but didn't bring a note because they weren't sick for 3 days in a row. (we found out later they had friends in town, but have no recourse as it wasn't the "3 days")

Private sector employees don't have the same leeway to pull crap like that. There is also the mentality that sick time is just like vacation time, however it isn't. Sick time is an insurance against illness not an entitlement of employees. I think it is fair and right to provide it, but I also think employees proven to abuse it should forfeit it entirely for the next year as punishment. Otherwise you get plans put into place that punish honest employees instead of the guilty ones, but as the unions say, everyone is equal so unfortunately everyone gets the punishment. Last I checked the BCGEU is one union that now receives sick time at 80% of their regular wage to recover costs of abuse. You know, instead of allowing the abusers to actually be punished.
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby LoneWolf_53 » Dec 5th, 2012, 2:57 pm

Veovis wrote:Private sector employees don't have the same leeway to pull crap like that. There is also the mentality that sick time is just like vacation time, however it isn't. Sick time is an insurance against illness not an entitlement of employees. I think it is fair and right to provide it, but I also think employees proven to abuse it should forfeit it entirely for the next year as punishment. Otherwise you get plans put into place that punish honest employees instead of the guilty ones, but as the unions say, everyone is equal so unfortunately everyone gets the punishment. Last I checked the BCGEU is one union that now receives sick time at 80% of their regular wage to recover costs of abuse. You know, instead of allowing the abusers to actually be punished.


I couldn't agree with you more, and you've articulated my feelings on the subject perfectly. :rate10:

Sick leave/pay is exactly that, insurance for when you are sick, and not simply additional paid vacation time if you choose to use it that way.

The disgust here, isn't in regards to what government workers earn, or the legitimate benefits they have, it's the blatant abuse of a benefit. It could in all honesty be deemed to be insurance fraud, as there's really no difference between the two.
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Poindexter » Dec 5th, 2012, 3:01 pm

Veovis wrote:
So people in the public sector getting "sick" on every second Friday for 1 and a half years is normal to you? That a specific pattern to when a person calls in sick is "random" and not an abuse. The fact that many public employees that I have seen will regularly take 2 days off but never 3 as they would need proof..


Calling in sick every second Friday would be considered "Culpable", and if thier manager was doing thier job they could start the proccess negotiated by the company and bargaining unit. It usually involves documentation and 2 or 3 letters on thier file with Dr's note required on every absence. If they fail to improve dismissal can follow.

Non-culpable absences are things like injuries, illness and yes, even stress. But to take a leave for stress requires that the employee is either medicated heavily or institutionalized and the dr has to fill out all the appropriate forms. No one can just say "I'm stressed out" and take time off. Depends on the union contract but managers have tools they can either dismiss or use to achieve improved attendance.
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Veovis » Dec 5th, 2012, 3:15 pm

That is true, managers do need to act once it is shown.

There are extra form for longer leaves and stress leaves now but I have also seen a lot of little prescription pad notes that read "off for 3 weeks" and that's it. More forms are then sent but doctors are pretty free with signing off on them all as no one can afford to challenge them all.

Many doctors are very free with the notes the provide for people because it doesn't matter to them really. It's part of a system that doesn't work and is often abused. I would like to see doctors held to a far higher standard of diagnosis for writing these notes and I have seen times where they go to a walk in to get a long term leave because their regular doctor is "out of town", and upon one very short visit they grant a 6 week leave.

The issues aren't just at employee levels for abuse of sick times and EI leaves.
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby ukcanuck » Dec 5th, 2012, 3:32 pm

LoneWolf_53 wrote:
I couldn't agree with you more, and you've articulated my feelings on the subject perfectly. :rate10:

Sick leave/pay is exactly that, insurance for when you are sick, and not simply additional paid vacation time if you choose to use it that way.

The disgust here, isn't in regards to what government workers earn, or the legitimate benefits they have, it's the blatant abuse of a benefit. It could in all honesty be deemed to be insurance fraud, as there's really no difference between the two.

Ahhhhh No, the disgust here is tarring every public employee and union member as thieving "pigs." It's amazing that the same people on this thread and other chicken little threads are in such a rush to punish and fine people for imagined plagues and abuses...

Man I would so love to be a fly on the wall when such perfect people inevitably mess up themselves....what preposterous excuses would ensue I wonder??
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby LoneWolf_53 » Dec 5th, 2012, 3:38 pm

ukcanuck wrote:Ahhhhh No, the disgust here is tarring every public employee and union member as thieving "pigs."


If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, tastes like a duck, and smells like a duck, the odds are excellent that is in fact a duck. :wink:

Bask in misguided indignation all you wish, it is what it is.
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby ukcanuck » Dec 5th, 2012, 3:42 pm

Veovis wrote:That is true, managers do need to act once it is shown.

There are extra form for longer leaves and stress leaves now but I have also seen a lot of little prescription pad notes that read "off for 3 weeks" and that's it. More forms are then sent but doctors are pretty free with signing off on them all as no one can afford to challenge them all.

Many doctors are very free with the notes the provide for people because it doesn't matter to them really. It's part of a system that doesn't work and is often abused. I would like to see doctors held to a far higher standard of diagnosis for writing these notes and I have seen times where they go to a walk in to get a long term leave because their regular doctor is "out of town", and upon one very short visit they grant a 6 week leave.

The issues aren't just at employee levels for abuse of sick times and EI leaves.

Keep talking pal, the more you say the more you betray your bias, now you want to include doctors with your mighty brush.
I gotta ask are you planning to run for the BC Conservative party? They are looking for small minded people.
It's always a conspiracy for midgets minds. To you, all people in unions are always lazy and looking for an edge right?
I might need another sick day to recover from the laughter, except I think I might cry thinking of all the other little minded people that believe this utter slop and what happens when enough small minded people congregate in political parties...zig heil eh?
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby ukcanuck » Dec 5th, 2012, 3:49 pm

LoneWolf_53 wrote:
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, tastes like a duck, and smells like a duck, the odds are excellent that is in fact a duck. :wink:

Bask in misguided indignation all you wish, it is what it is.


You mean tastes like a ducks ass, same as your opinion...
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Poindexter » Dec 5th, 2012, 3:55 pm

Veovis wrote:That is true, managers do need to act once it is shown.

There are extra form for longer leaves and stress leaves now but I have also seen a lot of little prescription pad notes that read "off for 3 weeks" and that's it. More forms are then sent but doctors are pretty free with signing off on them all as no one can afford to challenge them all.

Many doctors are very free with the notes the provide for people because it doesn't matter to them really. It's part of a system that doesn't work and is often abused. I would like to see doctors held to a far higher standard of diagnosis for writing these notes and I have seen times where they go to a walk in to get a long term leave because their regular doctor is "out of town", and upon one very short visit they grant a 6 week leave.

The issues aren't just at employee levels for abuse of sick times and EI leaves.


Very true, Dr's have some responsibility not to endorse false claims and enable hypochondria. It costs the system across the board and not just in union enviroments.

Even with Dr's consent a manager still has some tools they can use. I've always liked the Situational Leadership model that catagorizes employees by skill and motivational level. I found without fail that every employee has within them the desire to achieve and the manager just has to find the trigger. I found that even with the worst employee and most mundane jobs, if you give the employee a sense of ownership and pride over thier work they can change. What I found in most cases they want to change but have been stuck at war with either themselves, peers or managers. No one wants to go to a job they hate everyday, sometimes they just need a reset from a manager is tough but fair and has demonstrated they have the employees best interests at heart.
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Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Rwede » Dec 5th, 2012, 4:07 pm

As we have lower skillset employees joining the public service union sector, we likewise have lower skillset managers joining the public sector management sector. To hope that our tax dollars get the best bang for the buck is foolhardy at either level.
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