Thursday, November 27th1.8°C
24124
23068

More union pigs at the trough!

Moderators: oneh2obabe, Jo, ferri, Triple 6

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Veovis » Dec 6th, 2012, 2:07 pm

ukcanuck wrote:The implication that because the public sector is unionized and that the extra sick time is not warranted In the job discription or that the time taken is illegitimate is NOT FACT.

That is Not FACT but a supposition based on the accusation that these costs are from illegitimate use of sick time.


These two comments alone are wrong. I never said anything about warranted time or job descriptions. I simply stated a FACT that public sector employees receive more sick time annually than the private sector does. This isn't for discussion, it simply is.

Warranted wasn't even the debate, abuse of allotted time is the debate, but heck you can't even comprehend that they do receive a larger allotment.

To actually think that no one has ever abused sick time ever (as appears to be you stance) is foolishness to the extreme.

The question is WHY is there so much more time taken? We know they receive more time and that it carries over each year (unlike most private sector positions) So WHY do they need and use so much more sick time. You are the only person who thinks they don't use more time, and you have nothing to prove it other than saying "everything else is a lie!!!" You can't even simply agree with the fact they do receive more time.

So you don't like what links people provided you, that's too bad, bring your own information counter to those articles and we'll discuss it.
Veovis
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2565
Likes: 88 posts
Liked in: 453 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2007, 2:11 pm

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby ukcanuck » Dec 6th, 2012, 2:52 pm

Veovis wrote:
I simply stated a FACT that public sector employees receive more sick time annually than the private sector does. This isn't for discussion, it simply is.


That "fact" taken literally as you have typed it would be impossible even if the number of sick days were taken were ten times as much...

Federally the union has 172,000 members (http://www.psac-afpc.com/) multiply that by ten for each province (a generous factor,)
And you have roughly 1.7 million publicly employed people in Canada..

The entire Canadian labour force is 18 million people (according to the CIA world fact book https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/ca.html)

So you can see, your "fact" is not so cut and dried is it?



Warranted wasn't even the debate, abuse of allotted time is the debate, but heck you can't even comprehend that they do receive a larger allotment.


The "sense of entitlement" so gleefully panned on this thread is most definitely part of the debate.

What seems to be overlooked here is that public service jobs do not usually pay as well as private sector competition for those skills and health benefits (including number of sick days) are a peek that the government needs to keep its workforce. especially now that they are asking more from less people.


To actually think that no one has ever abused sick time ever (as appears to be you stance) is foolishness to the extreme.

Another clue that you are of the same ilk as rwede and lone wolf, I expect them to struggle with English, but you are an accountant with years of experience so you should be able to read where I have said time and again, that there is fraud just statistically no more or less than anywhere else .

The question is WHY is there so much more time taken?

You still have to define what is more time and in what parts or industries, and at which level of the service, you can drive the short yellow bus rwede and lone wolf ride on right through your supposition ...

We know they receive more time

We know that most public employees are entitled to sick days yes...

and that it carries over each year (unlike most private sector positions)

Another massive assumption, many private sector jobs have great benefits and more generous sick day packages.

So WHY do they need and use so much more sick time. You are the only person who thinks they don't use more time, and you have nothing to prove it other than saying "everything else is a lie!!!" You can't even simply agree with the fact they do receive more time.


Blah blah blah read my posts I've given plenty if logical reasons why I think this thread is a complete insult to the men and women of the public service and an assault on basic logic.

So you don't like what links people provided you, that's too bad, bring your own information counter to those articles and we'll discuss it.


I don't like the report by the CFIB because its a manipulative collection of political rhetoric and every link posted here so far can be traced right back to that one report.

The FACT is that the OP is wrong and there is no proof to support it.

all there is is a whole bunch of blah blah yada yada ...
User avatar
ukcanuck
Fledgling
 
Posts: 278
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Apr 24th, 2011, 11:21 am

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Rwede » Dec 6th, 2012, 2:58 pm

Funny how all the successful business people on here give credence to the reports that have all pointed to this abuse, while the one government union rep doesn't, yet that union rep has no reports to show otherwise. :127:
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

George+ says: "Makes no sense to me.
But that is not unusual."
User avatar
Rwede
Guru
 
Posts: 8068
Likes: 3238 posts
Liked in: 1128 posts
Joined: May 6th, 2009, 9:49 am

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Veovis » Dec 6th, 2012, 3:06 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
I don't like the report by the CFIB because its a manipulative collection of political rhetoric and every link posted here so far can be traced right back to that one report.

The FACT is that the OP is wrong and there is no proof to support it.

all there is is a whole bunch of blah blah yada yada ...


Show you proof then, there's some data for the one side of the discussion, so please post yours so we can discuss that.
Veovis
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2565
Likes: 88 posts
Liked in: 453 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2007, 2:11 pm

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby LoneWolf_53 » Dec 6th, 2012, 3:11 pm

Rwede wrote:Funny how all the successful business people on here give credence to the reports that have all pointed to this abuse, while the one government union rep doesn't, yet that union rep has no reports to show otherwise. :127:


Indeed, just a big mouth, and a glaringly obvious need to brush up on, what is and isn't politically correct form, particularly for a public servant, since using the term short bus, in such a derogatory manner, is viewed by most as somewhat tacky.

Then again, she probably fell off of it and hit her head, which might explain a lot. :dyinglaughing:



@ Veovis - You're dealing with someone, who if you showed her photographic proof, of a fellow worker caught in the act on the golf course during a sick day, she'd claim that it was digitally manipulated and irrelevant.
"Friends are the family that we choose ourselves!"
User avatar
LoneWolf_53
Walks on Forum Water
 
Posts: 10829
Likes: 417 posts
Liked in: 1043 posts
Joined: Mar 19th, 2005, 12:06 pm

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby ukcanuck » Dec 6th, 2012, 3:22 pm

Veovis wrote:
Show you proof then, there's some data for the one side of the discussion, so please post yours so we can discuss that.

Ok now you are just mucking about to look good in front if the peanut gallery. You know full well that the "data" that exists are raw numbers available through Stats Can. You know that to make sense of those numbers is beyond the scope of this forum.
And more Importantly you know that the CFIB has taken those raw numbers and built a slanted case that you STILL are trying to cling too.

The bottom line is I did not start a thread calling a bunch if people pigs based on a conservative hack report. I'm the one who is calling BS on that suggestion, You are the one clinging to a garbage position it's up to you to substantiate your claims or remain in the wrong.
User avatar
ukcanuck
Fledgling
 
Posts: 278
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Apr 24th, 2011, 11:21 am

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Veovis » Dec 6th, 2012, 3:28 pm

So WHY do they need and use so much more sick time. You are the only person who thinks they don't use more time, and you have nothing to prove it other than saying "everything else is a lie!!!" You can't even simply agree with the fact they do receive more time.


ukcanuck wrote:Blah blah blah read my posts I've given plenty if logical reasons why I think this thread is a complete insult to the men and women of the public service and an assault on basic logic.


Yes indeed you have all of the self righteous indignation down, but none of the discussion. I didn't ask if you felt offended, I asked if you can think of any examples why it would be used in such a massive differential?

You ignored that question which I then have to take as the case that you have no explanation just like in the video.

Veovis wrote: I simply stated a FACT that public sector employees receive more sick time annually than the private sector does. This isn't for discussion, it simply is.

ukcanuck wrote:That "fact" taken literally as you have typed it would be impossible even if the number of sick days were taken were ten times as much...


Cut the run around crap. Public sector employees receive more hours per person than do private sector employees.

Bob gets 120 hours a year vs Bill getting 80 hours per year. Since you cannot comprehend anything straight forward I'll let you in on a little secret. 120 is a larger number than 80.

What's occurring is that Bob is using 115 of those hours and Bill is using 65 of his hours.

Explain why public sector Bob (as a whole) is using more time. Do you even have any examples or explanations for the difference?

As for you stating that fraud is no more or less than anywhere else, why do you feel that way? What support do you have for your hypothesis. I know what private sectors employers did to coworkers when we pulled crap "sick" days to go golfing, and I've seen what happens in the public sector when they call in "sick" to go golfing. Only the private sector person got any real punishment. When there is no fear of getting in trouble you will find a higher level of abuse.



and that it carries over each year (unlike most private sector positions)

ukcanuck wrote:Another massive assumption, many private sector jobs have great benefits and more generous sick day packages.


Some but not on the same scale. Most I know allow 9-10 days (8 hour days) per year no carry over.
Veovis
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2565
Likes: 88 posts
Liked in: 453 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2007, 2:11 pm

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Veovis » Dec 6th, 2012, 3:32 pm

ukcanuck wrote:Ok now you are just mucking about to look good in front if the peanut gallery. You know full well that the "data" that exists are raw numbers available through Stats Can. You know that to make sense of those numbers is beyond the scope of this forum.
And more Importantly you know that the CFIB has taken those raw numbers and built a slanted case that you STILL are trying to cling too.

The bottom line is I did not start a thread calling a bunch if people pigs based on a conservative hack report. I'm the one who is calling BS on that suggestion, You are the one clinging to a garbage position it's up to you to substantiate your claims or remain in the wrong.


Then back up you opinion. You didn't start the thread, but you have brought your holier than thou victim act into it and made your own statements about what it "fact" but have not brought one thing to the table to give your opinion any basis. You call other people observations and analysis false, yet provide nothing of your own.

Therefore, show your work or continue to fail.
Veovis
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2565
Likes: 88 posts
Liked in: 453 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2007, 2:11 pm

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Veovis » Dec 6th, 2012, 3:40 pm

Here's another fun exercise for you as well.

What % of sick days that public sector employees are entitled to are actually funded?

I'll give a hint (it's not 100%)

So these wonderful employees who "need" all this extra time aren't just "cashing in on government money" their actual only attacking one person - their direct employer.
Veovis
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2565
Likes: 88 posts
Liked in: 453 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2007, 2:11 pm

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby LoneWolf_53 » Dec 6th, 2012, 3:42 pm

Veovis wrote: I know what private sectors employers did to coworkers when we pulled crap "sick" days to go golfing, and I've seen what happens in the public sector when they call in "sick" to go golfing. Only the private sector person got any real punishment. When there is no fear of getting in trouble you will find a higher level of abuse.


That's pretty much the crux of it.
"Friends are the family that we choose ourselves!"
User avatar
LoneWolf_53
Walks on Forum Water
 
Posts: 10829
Likes: 417 posts
Liked in: 1043 posts
Joined: Mar 19th, 2005, 12:06 pm

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby Captain Awesome » Dec 6th, 2012, 3:44 pm

Y'all just jealous of people working for the union.
Sarcasm is like a good game of chess. Most people don't know how to play chess.
User avatar
Captain Awesome
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 23213
Likes: 3 posts
Liked in: 1695 posts
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2008, 4:06 pm
Location: The United Colonies of The Lizard People

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby LoneWolf_53 » Dec 6th, 2012, 3:48 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:Y'all just jealous of people working for the union.


:dyinglaughing:

More like, annoyed, that they're "working" us.
"Friends are the family that we choose ourselves!"
User avatar
LoneWolf_53
Walks on Forum Water
 
Posts: 10829
Likes: 417 posts
Liked in: 1043 posts
Joined: Mar 19th, 2005, 12:06 pm

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby normaM » Dec 6th, 2012, 5:11 pm

Uk keeps typing fail, then types " I'm outta here" 4 mins later he is posting again
I rather consider that a FAIL
I mean, you are in, or out, but don't go breathe in a bag then pop back..
If you allow it then don't complain about it
User avatar
normaM
Walks on Forum Water
 
Posts: 13064
Likes: 936 posts
Liked in: 366 posts
Joined: Sep 18th, 2007, 6:28 am

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby ukcanuck » Dec 6th, 2012, 5:59 pm

normaM wrote:Uk keeps typing fail, then types " I'm outta here" 4 mins later he is posting again
I rather consider that a FAIL
I mean, you are in, or out, but don't go breathe in a bag then pop back..

To be exact NormaM I said I was done with trying to reason with Gramma freddie in a post directly at her. you are the second person to mistake my meaning on that. I've not said anything about leaving the discussion and i have never typed the words "i'm outta here."

i do think im wasting my time here though, the people who have posted here for the most part had their minds made up about unions and the public service long before that report from the CFIB came out. Thats why they jumped on it. why they think its gospel and why they would deny the truth if I brought evidence and witnesses like it was the mantler trial.

In fact Lonewolf and Rwede both had their ass handed to them on a platter in the marijuana possession thread and refused to believe hard facts from the medical community complete with supporting data and references... and both responded with "but, but, blubber blubber..."
User avatar
ukcanuck
Fledgling
 
Posts: 278
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Apr 24th, 2011, 11:21 am

Re: More union pigs at the trough!

Postby grammafreddy » Dec 6th, 2012, 7:28 pm

I think I smell a Kamloops Queen in this thread. She's the only one I can think of who is this dense and argumentative. We're being trolled - IMNSHO.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
We are a generation of idiots - smart phones and dumb people.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
User avatar
grammafreddy
Chief Sh*t Disturber
 
Posts: 28551
Likes: 2199 posts
Liked in: 776 posts
Joined: Mar 17th, 2007, 9:52 am

PreviousNext

Return to Canada Politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest