Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

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Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby flamingfingers » Oct 10th, 2014, 2:37 pm

This is the 6th 'trade' junket she has had since 2011. What do we have to show for the first 5? Do you really think this will be any different?

Editorial: Calculate value of trade mission
Times Colonist
October 10, 2014 12:41 AM

We applaud Premier Christy Clark’s efforts to look abroad, particularly to Asia, to expand markets for B.C.’s resources, services and expertise. The more trading connections, the better. The opportunities will not come to us, they must be sought out, vigorously and assertively.

Clark’s shiny liquefied-natural gas dream is losing some of its glow as revenue estimates are scaled down and prospective LNG investors show signs of skittishness. Even the government has backed away from its election-campaign hype, with Monday’s throne speech calling LNG development “a chance, not a windfall.”

As we have written several times, as recently as this week, pinning all of B.C.’s economic hopes on LNG is foolish, and the government needs to pursue economic diversity.

If it takes the premier, a cabinet minister, assorted aides and a group of non-government delegates embarking on a trade mission to achieve that, so be it. However, the costs and benefits of such a mission should be made public to assure British Columbians their money is not being expended unwisely.

Within days of Lt.-Gov. Judith Guichon reading the throne speech, Clark was packing her bags for her sixth trade mission abroad since 2011. She is in India “for face-to-face meetings with key business and government officials,” according to the government’s website.

She was accompanied by Advanced Education Minister Amrik Virk and “a group of registered delegates.” Virk’s task is “to raise awareness of the great potential for secondary and post-secondary education partnerships, joint research initiatives and student exchange between B.C. and India.”

The costs are considerable, but so are the stakes — we shouldn’t expect thousand-dollar returns from penny investments. But neither should we expect public money to be spent on ventures unless there is a reasonable chance for decent returns.
Are potential investors really that dazzled by visits from elected officials? They deal in numbers; they are concerned about profits, not politics. Sure, relationships are necessary, but long-term business deals don’t hang on a relationship with someone whose presence is guaranteed only until the next election.


If high-level shmoozing is what it takes to improve economic diversity, then shmooze away. But keep British Columbians appraised of what is spent and what is gained.

Of course, costs can be immediately tabulated, while it will take considerable time to measure the benefits. Nevertheless, our globe-trotting premier should be as clear and open as possible about the returns on investment from her frequent trade missions.


- See more at: http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/ed ... Sm97F.dpuf

These are the 'registered delegates' accompanying Clark:
Here’s the list:
• Academy of Learning
• Affluence Capital
• Atomic Cartoons
• Autopro Automation Consultants
• BC Council for International Education
• Bray Partners Inc.
• British Columbia Institute of Technology
• Broad Connect Telecom Inc.
• Canada India Network
• Canada-India Business Council
• Canadian Western Holdings Ltd.
• Catalyst Paper
• Centre for Drug Research and Development
• College of New Caledonia
• Colliers
• Colonial Coal International Corp.
• Comcast
• Creative BC
• Deloitte
• DHX Media
• East West Petroleum (chaired by David Sidoo and the board includes ex-federal Liberal minister Herb Dhaliwal).
• Elegant Development Inc.
• Elexisoft Technologies
• EP Canada
• ethniK Yarn
• Falcon Equipment
• Fraserview Cedar Products
• GFZ Studios
• Gill International Travel
• Green House Creations
• Huu-ay-aht First Nation (whose HFN Development LP chief financial officer is Stan Coleman, brother of deputy premier Rich Coleman)
• IC-IMPACTS
• In Situ Media Corp.
• Komagata Maru Heritage Foundation
• KPMG
• KWL
• Langara College
• McCarthy Tetrault LLP
• Meghna Halder Production BC
• MITACS
• Nerd Corps Entertainment Inc.
• New East Group of Companies
• North Shore Studios
• Northwest Freightways
• Numa Models
• Omnifilm Entertainment Ltd.
• Optimus Information Inc.
• Pacific Northwest LNG
• Pacific Oil & Gas Ltd. (Woodfibre LNG proponent)
• Port Alberni Port Authority
• Ptc Chl
• Pyramid Wine Exports
• Raymond Massey Productions
• Royal Roads University
• Sandhurst Group (An Esso dealer and Tim Hortons franchisee).
• SILO Entertainment
• Simon Fraser University
• Solaris Geothermal
• Steelhead LNG
• Sukhi Bath Group of Companies
• Sushma’s Creations
• Tata Elxsi-Visual Computing Labs
• Teck Resources Ltd.
• Thinkeco Power
• TransNational Canada Counsel
• University of British Columbia
• University of the Fraser Valley
• University of Victoria
• Vancouver Film School
• Vancouver Film Studios
• Vestechno Solutions
• Victoria Square

http://bobmackin.ca/?p=1944

Who in the heck are all these people?
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby The Green Barbarian » Oct 10th, 2014, 2:41 pm

We should never send our elected representatives anywhere beyond our borders, and in fact, should be spending billions right now on building a giant wall around the province, so no trade can ever be done with anyone. That way the anti-free trade lunatics and the nuts and loons who obsess and whine and moan over everything Christy Clark does can just shut their cakeholes, even if it for only a few minutes.
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby Urbane » Oct 10th, 2014, 2:43 pm

Even the Times Colonist, which is a left-leaning newspaper, sees the wisdom of such a trip:

We applaud Premier Christy Clark’s efforts to look abroad, particularly to Asia, to expand markets for B.C.’s resources, services and expertise. The more trading connections, the better. The opportunities will not come to us, they must be sought out, vigorously and assertively.


There are no guarantees that come with trade missions but the TC editorialist is correct. Premier Clark is to be applauded for looking abroad and attempting to expand our trading connections.
"Spectemur agendo"
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby flamingfingers » Oct 10th, 2014, 2:55 pm

^Please point to 'the trading connections' Christy Clark has initiated on our behalf with her 5 previous junkets and the benefits we have derived. Thanks.
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby flamingfingers » Oct 10th, 2014, 3:04 pm

Urbane wrote:Even the Times Colonist, which is a left-leaning newspaper, sees the wisdom of such a trip:

"We applaud Premier Christy Clark’s efforts to look abroad, particularly to Asia, to expand markets for B.C.’s resources, services and expertise. The more trading connections, the better. The opportunities will not come to us, they must be sought out, vigorously and assertively."

There are no guarantees that come with trade missions but the TC editorialist is correct. Premier Clark is to be applauded for looking abroad and attempting to expand our trading connections.


"snerk"...Urb, that was the same item I quoted from....only you did not quote the entire article - maybe read the whole thing before you do the rah!rah!!, eh?
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby Urbane » Oct 10th, 2014, 3:11 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:
    "snerk"...Urb, that was the same item I quoted from....only you did not quote the entire article - maybe read the whole thing before you do the rah!rah!!, eh?

Yes, I was quoting from one of the UN-highlited parts of the column that you posted.

Please point to 'the trading connections' Christy Clark has initiated on our behalf with her 5 previous junkets and the benefits we have derived. Thanks.



Office of the Premier

India trade mission builds stronger ties, creates opportunities for B.C.
Economy, Education, Families, Government Operations, Health, Multiculturalism Thursday, October 9, 2014 2:40 PM

VANCOUVER - Premier Christy Clark departs today on the India Trade Mission, and will be joined by Minister of Advanced Education Amrik Virk. They will be leading a delegation of over 70 companies and post-secondary institutions to reinforce B.C.’s economic and cultural ties with India, promote further investment in B.C. and expand exports as part of the BC Jobs Plan.

“One of the keys to doing business internationally is building relationships,” said Clark. “Trade missions allow us to make connections that open doors to long-term trade and investment and create opportunities for research and student exchanges. As we continue to make inroads into the Asia Pacific market, we are seeing these partnerships create more economic opportunities - and more jobs at home.”

Throughout the trade mission from Oct. 9-18, 2014, which will make stops in New Delhi, Chandigarh, Bangalore and Mumbai, Clark and Virk will promote the strength of key B.C. sectors, including liquefied natural gas and other natural resources, clean technology, life sciences, film, digital arts and finance. The trade mission will also showcase B.C. as India’s fastest and most efficient gateway to North American markets.

Minister Virk will also travel to Bangalore to raise awareness of the great potential for secondary and post-secondary education partnerships, joint research initiatives, and student exchange between B.C. and India.

“India’s young demographics and growing middle class make it one of the world’s fastest-growing economies,” said Virk. “In the post-secondary sector, we’re already seeing the benefits of the work we’ve done to build relationships with India. Compared to other international countries, India has the second-highest number of agreements with B.C.’s public post-secondary institutions and we look forward to building on that on this trade mission.”

Trade missions are a critical part of British Columbia’s strategy to diversify its international trading partners and secure new investment, propelling economic activity and job creation throughout the province. The last three major Premier-led missions to Asian markets resulted in business deals and partnership agreements valued at over $1.8 billion.

India is identified as a key export market in the BC Jobs Plan, and is already emerging as an important trade and investment partner for B.C. For example, in 2013, B.C. goods exported to India jumped by 46% to $469 million compared to the same period in 2012.

This trade mission will build on the success of the Premier’s Jobs and Trade Mission to China and India in 2011 by strengthening B.C.’s relationships with government partners and promoting the province’s competitive advantages in corporate meetings with key investors in priority sectors.

Quick facts:

Between 2001 and 2013, trade between India and B.C. has increased by more than 296%.
The top commodity exports to India in 2013 were mineral products, wood products, pulp, and machinery and equipment.
British Columbia has expanded its trade and investment network in India with trade and investment representatives located in Bangalore, Mumbai and Chandigarh.
India is part of our International Education Strategy, which includes the goal of a 50% increase to the number of international students studying in B.C. by 2016.
In 2012-13, there were 4,600 international students from India studying in B.C., including 2,600 in public post-secondary institutions and 2,000 in private post-secondary institutions.

Learn more:

For a daily itinerary of the trade mission: http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/2014/10/t ... india.html

For more information about B.C. trade and investment opportunities visit: http://www.britishcolumbia.ca/

Learn more about the BC Jobs Plan at: http://www.bcjobsplan.ca
"Spectemur agendo"
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby maryjane48 » Oct 10th, 2014, 3:14 pm

sounds more like mission to line up some new canadians, or as we know them as , underpaid slaves from over there
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby flamingfingers » Oct 10th, 2014, 3:19 pm

Office of the Premier

India trade mission builds stronger ties, creates opportunities for B.C.
Economy, Education, Families, Government Operations, Health, Multiculturalism Thursday, October 9, 2014 2:40 PM


Yep, sure get the absolute and unvarnished truth from that 'office'! ROTFLMAO!!
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby Urbane » Oct 10th, 2014, 3:35 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:
    Yep, sure get the absolute and unvarnished truth from that 'office'! ROTFLMAO!!
You asked and I answered! What we've learned from your 857 (give or take a few hundred) anti-Christy Clark threads is that you come out against anything and everything that she does. If she weren't leading a trade mission right now you'd be telling us how terrible that was but since she is leading one you're against it. When she holds a press conference she's grandstanding. When she doesn't she's hiding. And on it goes . . . anyway, I'm in favour of BC trading with other jurisdictions and I agree with the trade mission to India.
"Spectemur agendo"

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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby flamingfingers » Oct 10th, 2014, 3:38 pm

^Do you agree with paying for the 'registered participants' that are tagging along with her? Or do you know FOR A FACT that they are paying their own way, i.e. without cost to the BC taxpayers???
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby Urbane » Oct 10th, 2014, 3:50 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:^Do you agree with paying for the 'registered participants' that are tagging along with her? Or do you know FOR A FACT that they are paying their own way, i.e. without cost to the BC taxpayers???
You find out and let us know. You'll be opposed no matter what and you can start a new thread.
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby The Green Barbarian » Oct 10th, 2014, 4:09 pm

lakevixen wrote:sounds more like mission to line up some new canadians, or as we know them as , underpaid slaves from over there


The only people who "know them" as that are dunder-headed morons.
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby maryjane48 » Oct 10th, 2014, 8:17 pm

The only people who "know them" as that are dunder-headed morons.
lol i thought harper called them tfw oh well you know mr h better than me :)
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby flamingfingers » Oct 15th, 2014, 10:46 am

Just WHAT is she doing???

Christy Clark's India Trade Mission Weighed Down By Puzzling Delegates
Posted: 10/14/2014 2:26 pm EDT Updated: 10/14/2014 6:59 pm EDT
Despite the fall sitting of the legislature, Premier Christy Clark and two cabinet ministers are off selling B.C. in India and the Far East this week. And those two trade missions couldn't be more different.

Accompanied by 25 senior executives from the industry, Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Minister Steve Thomson is in China, Japan and South Korea with one objective: develop new markets for B.C.'s forestry products.

Premier Clark, on the other hand, is being accompanied to India by Advanced Education Minister Amrik Virk and a diverse group of 72 travelling companions from nearly a dozen different economic sectors, two countries, and two provinces.

Some of those sectors have sufficient numbers for some critical mass: education, LNG and the film industry. But there's also representation from the fashion industry, decorative stones, a port authority, a modelling agency, heavy equipment, a used car dealer, a travel firm and even a Tim Horton's franchisee.

One company -- Canadian Western Holdings Ltd. -- wouldn't have a single Google result to its name were it not for the news release from the premier's office last week announcing the delegation.

A handful of the companies don't have a website, some don't seem to have a listed phone number anywhere in Canada.

Among the delegation are a handful of multinationals who could hardly be considered homegrown. Supernatural B.C. doesn't spring to mind when you think of Colliers, Deloitte or KPMG. Each has extensive operations in India already.

Another company -- Affluence Capital -- operates out of a home-based office in Calgary. Pyramid Wine Exports is also Calgary-based, but does broker B.C. wines.

Three companies are actually headquartered in India and any connection with B.C. -- such as an office or telephone number -- isn't readily apparent from their websites.


Tata Elxsi's Visual Computing Labs is an animation and visual effects studio in India. It's part of the Tata Group, a $100 billion multinational based in Mumbai.

Another -- Bangalore-based Elexisoft Technologies -- describes itself as offering the "best software training and placement in evergreen technologies." Outsourcing firm Vestechno is based in Bangalore as well, but has an office in Michigan.

It does make one wonder though: why would companies headquartered in India join a trade mission with the B.C. government to, of all places, India?

In addition to the nine post-secondary institutions on the trip, a handful of research centres are among the delegation, including: IC-IMPACTS or the India-Canada Centre for Innovative Multidisciplinary Partnerships to Accelerate Community Transformation and Sustainability.

(I can understand why they went with the acronym.)

In the still selling the sizzle department, the LNG sector is well represented with Pacific Oil and Gas, Pacific Northwest LNG, and Huu-ay-aht First Nations that's hoping to develop a LNG facility with fellow traveller Steelhead LNG.

Godspeed to them. India currently buys LNG from Qatar, a distance of 2,885 kilometres, and Australia, a distance of 7,060 kilometres. The odometer to Squamish -- site of Pacific Oil and Gas's proposed Woodfibre LNG plant -- clicks in at about 11,800 kilometres.

And talk about your mixed messages. While Clark touts LNG as clean energy, she'll be pushing coal and oil too. Colonial Coal Corporation and East West Petroleum are among the delegation. East West Petroleum has exploration concessions in New Zealand, Romania, Morocco and India, but not one in B.C. It does have former federal cabinet minister Herb Dhaliwal on the board of directors though.

Here's another problem with the delegation: when most people think trade, they think widgets, companies that manufacture a good, or produce a service that can be sold to customers in other countries.

While importing is an integral part of any trading relationship, most British Columbians would expect the priority of a B.C. trade mission to be on exports, because exports create jobs here in B.C. And after all, British Columbians are picking up a chunk of the tab.

Yet, ethniK Yarns -- which imports hand-woven sarees from India -- is on the trip. Tough to imagine they're going to start hand weaving sarees in the Lower Mainland to export back to India anytime soon.

All of these factors contribute to the crux of the problem with this trip: just as too many cooks spoil the broth, too many industries and too many competing interests can spoil a trade mission.


Read the comments here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/dermodtrav ... 84086.html
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Re: Cost vs benefit - we pay; Christy 'benefits'

Postby steven lloyd » Oct 16th, 2014, 5:10 pm

flamingfingers wrote: Who in the heck are all these people?

Mostly Liberal Party contributors I suspect. I’m certainly not against trade missions in general, but I think we taxpayers have good reason to question the legitimacy of this travelling party - and ask, just who is paying for what. What a joke.

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