Pipelines

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Re: Pipelines

Postby Cactusflower » Mar 5th, 2018, 10:45 pm

Smurf wrote:CF maybe if you started answering some of our questions someone would answer some of yours. I gave you information you wanted but you have totally ignored the questions I have asked. WHY?


What were the questions, Smurf? No, never mind. I've known for quite some time where the denizens of the Castanet forums stand on any and all things environmental. Even those who claim to care about the environment actually don't. Why? Because of their extreme right-wing beliefs. So I'm signing out for now. I'll come back every now and then just to check to see if anyone has been able to reason with any of you. 'Bye for now!
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Re: Pipelines

Postby The Green Barbarian » Mar 6th, 2018, 2:49 pm

Cactusflower wrote:
What were the questions, Smurf? No, never mind. I've known for quite some time where the denizens of the Castanet forums stand on any and all things environmental. Even those who claim to care about the environment actually don't. Why? Because of their extreme right-wing beliefs. So I'm signing out for now. I'll come back every now and then just to check to see if anyone has been able to reason with any of you. 'Bye for now!


LOL - what a total cop-out. As expected. Sheer laziness and also fear. Fear that if you have to start defending your position with more than just emotion and hyperbole, you'll realize that you have no position at all.
Not all leftists are stupid, but most stupid people are leftists.
- Dr. Don Boys

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Re: Pipelines

Postby The Green Barbarian » Mar 6th, 2018, 2:50 pm

alanjh595 wrote:
Why do you insist on saying, that there WILL be a spill in the future?


because without unreasonable fear-mongering and general paranoia, there is no argument to be had.
Not all leftists are stupid, but most stupid people are leftists.
- Dr. Don Boys

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Re: Pipelines

Postby nepal » Mar 6th, 2018, 9:08 pm

.
Well Cactusflower, it looks like your group is winning with your pipeline opposition. A major Alberta oil sands company has just announced it is moving to rail to move the product to tidewater. The rivers of BC, the towns along the railways, the animals on the railways, the forests the railways pass through, the urban areas of Vancouver where the rails pass through, will have your group to point to for the curse of thousands of rumbling and dangerous rail tankers.

The expanded Burrard oil shipping terminal is already well into construction.
The increased oil tanker ships will now come and go with no change to marine regulations, that would have come with the pipeline, as well as no pipeline tax revenue to the province. Prairie grain farmer livelihoods will also now be at risk, as rail capacity moves from grain to moving oil. Thanks a bunch.

The skinny burried pipe could have gone through the sparsely populated Northern Crossing, it could have gone by pipe Trans Canada, it could go by pipe with Trans Mountain - No, the last and worst environmental option is what we're left with - rail tankers! Good going!

Cactusflower, do you own Canadian railway shares? If so, you've played this investment well.
Railway's win, the environment's loss.

Last edited by nepal on Mar 8th, 2018, 11:36 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Pipelines

Postby Smurf » Mar 7th, 2018, 6:03 am

Correct, all the derailments etc will be on their backs. Hopefully here will not be another disaster that wipes out half a town or something. Wonder who will pay for the clean up. It is even possible we won't get our extra protection on our waterways if they do stop the pipeline. All we can hope is Trudeau mans up and fast.
Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have of changing others.

The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the most of everything that comes their way.

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Re: Pipelines

Postby Snowbound » Mar 7th, 2018, 8:03 pm

Typical vocal minority of posters on here that spout the same nonsense that has proven to be bullship.....

I have operated pipelines for 20+ years and I will say this. There are some bad operators that need to be watched, but most of the companies are 100% behind HSE. Too much bad press otherwise. BP and Nexen Long Lake are good examples of cutting corners with disastrous results. I have seen it first hand with a company I worked for years ago (out of business/taken over). It is known as "Crash Maintenance" in industry. No pigging or corrosion inhibitor program, and we had 4 year old pipelines like sprinkler systems.

I would hope the construction and maintenance of ANY future pipeline is up to the highest standards. Take some carbon tax dollars and for a good audit team to keep the PL operators honest. I can't speak for Kinder Morgan, but I would propose they put up a $10 billion clean up fund in trust in case of an event. You never know when some *bleep* will drive a fence post or backhoe bucket through a pipeline.

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Re: Pipelines

Postby rustled » Mar 7th, 2018, 9:36 pm

Snowbound wrote:Typical vocal minority of posters on here that spout the same nonsense that has proven to be bullship.....

I have operated pipelines for 20+ years and I will say this. There are some bad operators that need to be watched, but most of the companies are 100% behind HSE. Too much bad press otherwise. BP and Nexen Long Lake are good examples of cutting corners with disastrous results. I have seen it first hand with a company I worked for years ago (out of business/taken over). It is known as "Crash Maintenance" in industry. No pigging or corrosion inhibitor program, and we had 4 year old pipelines like sprinkler systems.

I would hope the construction and maintenance of ANY future pipeline is up to the highest standards. Take some carbon tax dollars and for a good audit team to keep the PL operators honest. I can't speak for Kinder Morgan, but I would propose they put up a $10 billion clean up fund in trust in case of an event. You never know when some *bleep* will drive a fence post or backhoe bucket through a pipeline.

:castanet:
What's HSE stand for?
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Re: Pipelines

Postby atenbacon » Mar 7th, 2018, 10:02 pm

rustled wrote:What's HSE stand for?


Health, Safety, Environment.
You have to keep an open mind until it is proven one way or the other. You just can't take the T.V. or internet word on it.

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Re: Pipelines

Postby Merry » Mar 9th, 2018, 10:36 am

This is a fairly balanced article on the subject, which presents various points of view while refuting some of the more outlandish claims. It's well worth the read (by proponents of BOTH sides of this debate):
http://nationalpost.com/news/is-the-tra ... says-it-is
"In a world swathed in political correctness, the voting booth remains the final sanctuary where the people are free to speak" - Clifford Orwin

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Re: Pipelines

Postby CapitalB » Mar 9th, 2018, 10:59 am

Merry wrote:This is a fairly balanced article on the subject, which presents various points of view while refuting some of the more outlandish claims. It's well worth the read (by proponents of BOTH sides of this debate):
http://nationalpost.com/news/is-the-tra ... says-it-is


Excellent article, definitely does a good job of covering the relevant points. Even mentions the few thing that seems to need upgrading so that the pipelines can flow safely. Those being;

Still, Western Canada Marine Response is only rated to deal with a spill under 10,000 tonnes. This is only one tenth of the volume spilled by the Exxon Valdez.


Tim Armstrong, the fire chief in New Westminster, told a Trans Mountain ministerial panel that he had concerns about Kinder Morgan’s stated plans to respond to a large-scale spill with teams from Alberta. “That’s not an emergency response. That’s a remediation plan,” he said.


Everything else is in pretty good order, though I think the point regarding bc coastal communities having a disproportionate cost to benefit ratio than the inland areas is going to continue being a sticking point (as also mentioned in the article).
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.

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Re: Pipelines

Postby ninetyninepct » Mar 12th, 2018, 10:55 am

Our family car gets about 8,000 kilometres put on it every year ... yet I pay for 20,000 to ICBC thanks to the "average" ... if I'm average that means that I put 12,000 kilometres on my bicycle which makes me feel pretty good (and usually stress free for not having to deal with too much traffic)

-------------------------------------------------------

You ride your bike on the streets? Are you crazy? Absolutely guaranteed you WILL get badly injured or even killed as there is a far higher risk doing that than a ship or pipeline leaking. I demand you stop riding your bike immediately as it offends me.

Question - When you get injured when biking, do you intend to call a diesel-powered taxpayer-funded ambulance to the taxpayer-funded hospital? I hope not as that would be hypocritical. It might come as an absolute shock, but taxes come from employment which comes from people working at businesses and corporations.

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Re: Pipelines

Postby Snowbound » Mar 19th, 2018, 12:36 pm

Lower mainland gas prices hitting $1.55/L and going higher. Same people protesting pipelines are now complaining about fuel prices. Karma is a *bleep*.

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Re: Pipelines

Postby Jflem1983 » Mar 19th, 2018, 12:38 pm

Snowbound wrote:Lower mainland gas prices hitting $1.55/L and going higher. Same people protesting pipelines are now complaining about fuel prices. Karma is a *bleep*.




Be funny if those people had to pay 5 dollars a litre. Serves em rite. Should all be cut off plastics . Fertalizers. Food grown with tractors and combines. Any other thing that uses oil or its products.


These protesters are scum.
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"

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Re: Pipelines

Postby Ka-El » Mar 19th, 2018, 2:36 pm

Snowbound wrote:Lower mainland gas prices hitting $1.55/L and going higher. Same people protesting pipelines are now complaining about fuel prices. Karma is a *bleep*.

Lower mainlanders paying $3 to $4 a litre before the end of this summer is a very real possibility (perhaps even higher after that). What the protestors haven't figured out yet (actually, I don't know if they're even figured the correlation on rising gas prices) is that not only is the price of their fuel going to go up dramatically, so will the price of anything that gets to their stores by transport - such as food, clothes, electronics and plastic kayaks. Not only are they going to kill our economy, but ironically they have put the environment at greater risk as companies are forced to continue transporting oil by rail and tanker truck.
While the research shows that people with right-wing views tend to be less intelligent than those with left-wing views,
the continued excuse-making and support for Donald Trump indicates researchers have underestimated by how much.

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Re: Pipelines

Postby the truth » Mar 19th, 2018, 2:44 pm

Snowbound wrote:Lower mainland gas prices hitting $1.55/L and going higher. Same people protesting pipelines are now complaining about fuel prices. Karma is a *bleep*.



yup :laugh:
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
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