The New Overdose Solution thread.

The forum's Skid Road. DO NOT ENTER unless you're ready for a squabble.

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby Jflem1983 » Jan 10th, 2018, 8:55 pm

Lore wrote:
Jflem1983 wrote:I hit my rock bottom. I think a lot of people have to hit bottom. Unfortunately todays drugs dont just make u go broke. They kill u . I have lost so many friends to this already its crazy. The last one cut the deepest. I really think the answer is to eliminate the supply of drugs.

We need to make fundamental changes to healthcare. It starts with pills then goes to heroin.
Need to stop coddling addicts. Need to make men man up. Personal responsibility.

When i was at my lowest i ran into a guy i had known from sjsa. He was living in a recovery house going to church. I went to church with him a few times. I think it helped me a little. Just let me see there was lots of normal people. Not everyone was a zombie like me.

Even at my lowest i always would look at someone else and think that guy was more fd up than i was. As if it mattered. Heck one of the guys i was smoking crack with. Shot his buddy. After he got out. They were back smoking crack together again. Drugs obviously are very powerful. I went for 5 year tour basically. Was not a fun time.

I don't think that the supply of drugs will ever be eliminated.
Just thought that you may have some insight on what someone could SAY to an addict to make them think
and potentially want to change their life. Not anything religious cause that's not me. I can't stand the criminal
aspect of the addicts but I really did feel that this girl was different.Hope what I said made her think.


There isnt much u can say that will mean much. In my experience at least. People will lie to get drugs. Tell u they will quit or have quit while still using. Etc. I hope whatever u did say to her helped.
For me though. I know there was nothing getting through my thick skull. I was in a dark place
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"

4 people like this post.
User avatar
Jflem1983
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4172
Likes: 8868 posts
Liked in: 2373 posts
Joined: Aug 23rd, 2015, 11:38 am

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby Ka-El » Jan 11th, 2018, 1:36 pm

Fancy wrote:
Jflem1983 wrote: I really think the answer is to eliminate the supply of drugs.
Authorities work at that every day at every border.

and the rate of "success" taking that approach will never change.
While the research shows that people with right-wing views tend to be less intelligent than those with left-wing views,
the continued excuse-making and support for Donald Trump indicates researchers have underestimated by how much.
User avatar
Ka-El
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4621
Likes: 2416 posts
Liked in: 4170 posts
Joined: Oct 18th, 2015, 9:19 am

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby Ka-El » Jan 11th, 2018, 1:56 pm

Lore wrote: I had a conversation(one sided actually) two days ago with a girl who may have been overdosing. I had phoned 911 and as I waited for the ambulance I was talking to her. Ended up she started crying, I guess related to what I was saying to her. She really did seem like a sweet girl who was just f'ed up with the drugs. I hope I planted some thoughts for her to think about.
So again, what can a person say to the drug addict to get them thinking and to help them?

I know you asked someone else, but I also have some perspective I can share from the other side of the picture (people who are actively trying to save lives, reduce crime and health problems, make communities safer, etc.). Addicts often cycle through the stages of change (pre-contemplation, contemplation, decision, action, maintenance and relapse), and small windows come up where they are or might be motivated to take that very scary first step. The problem has always been availability, and timely access to detox and treatment resources. It sounds like that young woman you were talking to might have been at that stage. I truly hope she got the help and support she needed when she needed it.

Unfortunately, we do not have forced treatment options available and that is very often a thorn in the side of police, corrections and other community service providers who are trying to make a difference. Safe injection sites, in the meantime, have at least not only helped to make an impact in reducing drug-using related crime (referring to property crimes, assaults, etc.) and spread of disease into the non-using population, they have also helped thousands of addicts get help to get off their addiction in time to still have a productive and contributing life. I’m sure there are still other strategies we can try, but at least we know what doesn’t work – in spite of the fact there are still people who would rather see us continue with the failed strategies wasting tax dollars in the hundreds of millions annually on completely ineffective efforts.
While the research shows that people with right-wing views tend to be less intelligent than those with left-wing views,
the continued excuse-making and support for Donald Trump indicates researchers have underestimated by how much.

2 people like this post.
User avatar
Ka-El
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4621
Likes: 2416 posts
Liked in: 4170 posts
Joined: Oct 18th, 2015, 9:19 am

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby Jflem1983 » Jan 11th, 2018, 2:14 pm

The tour bus is a joke. Wanna hear something really sad. My buddy who just died at christmas. He was offered a naloxne kit. He wasnt about to admit he had a problem. He refused the kit. Died a week or so later
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"

the truth likes this post.
User avatar
Jflem1983
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4172
Likes: 8868 posts
Liked in: 2373 posts
Joined: Aug 23rd, 2015, 11:38 am

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby Lore » Jan 11th, 2018, 3:33 pm

Ka-El wrote:I know you asked someone else, but I also have some perspective I can share from the other side of the picture (people who are actively trying to save lives, reduce crime and health problems, make communities safer, etc.). Addicts often cycle through the stages of change (pre-contemplation, contemplation, decision, action, maintenance and relapse), and small windows come up where they are or might be motivated to take that very scary first step. The problem has always been availability, and timely access to detox and treatment resources. It sounds like that young woman you were talking to might have been at that stage. I truly hope she got the help and support she needed when she needed it.

Unfortunately, we do not have forced treatment options available and that is very often a thorn in the side of police, corrections and other community service providers who are trying to make a difference. Safe injection sites, in the meantime, have at least not only helped to make an impact in reducing drug-using related crime (referring to property crimes, assaults, etc.) and spread of disease into the non-using population, they have also helped thousands of addicts get help to get off their addiction in time to still have a productive and contributing life. I’m sure there are still other strategies we can try, but at least we know what doesn’t work – in spite of the fact there are still people who would rather see us continue with the failed strategies wasting tax dollars in the hundreds of millions annually on completely ineffective efforts.

Guess I should not have aimed my question at one person.If anyone had suggestions I would like to hear them as it seems I have been coming across a few addicts lately who are pretty out of it.
I think the girl I was with while waiting for the ambulance went to the hospital as I had to leave briefly when the ambulance got there and when I returned they were all gone.I hope she got help.
Question for you: How have safe injection sites helped to make an impact in reducing drug-using related crime as you stated?
Its my understanding that the addicts bring their own drugs to these sites so they would still be committing crimes to get the money for their drugs, right?
Or are you saying that these sites are providing the drugs therefore the addicts do not need to commit crimes for their fix?
Lore
Übergod
 
Posts: 1117
Likes: 483 posts
Liked in: 177 posts
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2006, 1:41 pm

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby the truth » Jan 11th, 2018, 3:42 pm

exactly most are committing crimes to buy there drugs , and get to get high on tax payers money on this bus ,
these drugs are illegal, but tax payers are paying for these junkies to get high on a junkie bus how f up is that
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
User avatar
the truth
Walks on Forum Water
 
Posts: 14279
Likes: 8971 posts
Liked in: 5379 posts
Joined: May 16th, 2007, 9:24 pm
Location: kelowna

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby the truth » Jan 11th, 2018, 3:45 pm

the truth wrote:exactly most are committing crimes to buy there drugs , and get to get high on tax payers money on this bus ,
these drugs are illegal, but tax payers are paying for these junkies to get high on a junkie bus how f up is that


this tax payers bus is breaking the law
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell

Jflem1983 likes this post.
User avatar
the truth
Walks on Forum Water
 
Posts: 14279
Likes: 8971 posts
Liked in: 5379 posts
Joined: May 16th, 2007, 9:24 pm
Location: kelowna

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby Lore » Jan 11th, 2018, 3:46 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:The tour bus is a joke. Wanna hear something really sad. My buddy who just died at christmas. He was offered a naloxne kit. He wasnt about to admit he had a problem. He refused the kit. Died a week or so later

Even if he had a naloxone kit, if he was alone he would not be able to use it before he od'ed.
A guy I saw about a month ago with his two buddies on whatever they were on had stolen a bag of clothes and were swaying around as they threw clothes all over a church yard in search of what clothing they liked.
Two left and I went over to talk to the one guy.
Yeah I was angry at the guy for making a mess that probably a senior volunteer at the church would have to clean up.
I got him to at least put it all in one pile and then tried to talk to the guy.
I asked him if he was scared of dying because of all the od's to which he said that he had od'ed lots.
So I just said to him that one of these days there would be no one there to save him and he would be dead.
Talked a bit more but then the drugs were really kicking in and he was just speaking gibberish.
Saw him 1/2 hour later in the back alley using a garbage dumpster to hold himself up.
No one there to help him if he od'ed.

Jflem1983 likes this post.
Lore
Übergod
 
Posts: 1117
Likes: 483 posts
Liked in: 177 posts
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2006, 1:41 pm

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby Ka-El » Jan 11th, 2018, 5:06 pm

Lore wrote: Question for you: How have safe injection sites helped to make an impact in reducing drug-using related crime as you stated? It’s my understanding that the addicts bring their own drugs to these sites so they would still be committing crimes to get the money for their drugs, right? Or are you saying that these sites are providing the drugs therefore the addicts do not need to commit crimes for their fix?

It is not always that black and white. Often many things start changing in the life of “junkies” once they start using safe injection sites and start making the connections with community workers. Some research has suggested crime will go down for a variety of reasons but I wasn’t able to quickly find those. There certainly are going to be conflicting results from research, and as noted we “need to be extremely skeptical of drug crime statistics as they are driven by continually changing enforcement capacity and practices”, not to mention partisan ideology. The one thing that most researchers agree on though is that safe injection sites have not led to increased crime as per the fear mongering, nor have they lead to increased use. I think the one thing that can be learned by reviewing the research on the subject is that there are few, if any, negative outcomes from safe injection sites and many positive outcomes. An objective and fairly thorough study can be found here if you are interested …

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/ ... earch.html
While the research shows that people with right-wing views tend to be less intelligent than those with left-wing views,
the continued excuse-making and support for Donald Trump indicates researchers have underestimated by how much.
User avatar
Ka-El
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4621
Likes: 2416 posts
Liked in: 4170 posts
Joined: Oct 18th, 2015, 9:19 am

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby foodsmith » Jan 11th, 2018, 5:22 pm

the truth wrote:
the truth wrote:exactly most are committing crimes to buy there drugs , and get to get high on tax payers money on this bus ,
these drugs are illegal, but tax payers are paying for these junkies to get high on a junkie bus how f up is that


this tax payers bus is breaking the law



Incorrect, friend... Sorry.

It operates under a similar mandate as that of InSite, with same or similar operational oversight.

It is not a "safe injection site"; it is a "safe consumption site".
Read back in the thread and you'll see this has been explained a vastly numerous amount of times already -- with references.
foodsmith
Board Meister
 
Posts: 426
Likes: 1087 posts
Liked in: 285 posts
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2011, 7:40 pm

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby Lore » Jan 11th, 2018, 6:15 pm

Ka-El wrote:It is not always that black and white. Often many things start changing in the life of “junkies” once they start using safe injection sites and start making the connections with community workers. Some research has suggested crime will go down for a variety of reasons but I wasn’t able to quickly find those. There certainly are going to be conflicting results from research, and as noted we “need to be extremely skeptical of drug crime statistics as they are driven by continually changing enforcement capacity and practices”, not to mention partisan ideology. The one thing that most researchers agree on though is that safe injection sites have not led to increased crime as per the fear mongering, nor have they lead to increased use. I think the one thing that can be learned by reviewing the research on the subject is that there are few, if any, negative outcomes from safe injection sites and many positive outcomes. An objective and fairly thorough study can be found here if you are interested …

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/ ... earch.html

Would be interesting to see research that says crime will go down and the reasons why.
I would agree that safe injection sites (of course) do not lead to increased crime but that the crime is around regardless and is there in large part to the addicts needing to get some money for their drugs.
The sites are good in that they prevent many needles from being left all over the place and that some people using the sites will get help and quit the drugs. Unfortunately the crime and the people od'ing over and over again is getting beyond ridiculous. I know someone who told me that their son's friend (a paramedic) in Vancouver committed suicide because the stress of constantly seeing and reviving addicts over and over again just to have them od was more than he could take.
Lore
Übergod
 
Posts: 1117
Likes: 483 posts
Liked in: 177 posts
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2006, 1:41 pm

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby Ka-El » Jan 11th, 2018, 6:25 pm

Lore wrote: ... crime is around regardless and is there in large part to the addicts needing to get some money for their drugs.

There is a solution that is working in other countries (I believe the UK is trying this but I'm not doing the research for everyone), but it would be very unpopular here with a lot of people. The very idea of giving junkies free drugs just rubs people the wrong way and stops them from objectively looking at the problem. The sad irony is the cost to taxpayers to supply free drugs to addicts is a fraction of the cost of dealing with the crime associated with them finding money for their fix. Oh well, we certainly know what doesn't work. The mantra of some here is "if it's broke, don't fix it".
While the research shows that people with right-wing views tend to be less intelligent than those with left-wing views,
the continued excuse-making and support for Donald Trump indicates researchers have underestimated by how much.

Loki2u likes this post.
User avatar
Ka-El
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4621
Likes: 2416 posts
Liked in: 4170 posts
Joined: Oct 18th, 2015, 9:19 am

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby CapitalB » Jan 11th, 2018, 6:35 pm

Ka-El wrote:
Lore wrote: ... crime is around regardless and is there in large part to the addicts needing to get some money for their drugs.

There is a solution that is working in other countries (I believe the UK is trying this but I'm not doing the research for everyone), but it would be very unpopular here with a lot of people. The very idea of giving junkies free drugs just rubs people the wrong way and stops them from objectively looking at the problem. The sad irony is the cost to taxpayers to supply free drugs to addicts is a fraction of the cost of dealing with the crime associated with them finding money for their fix. Oh well, we certainly know what doesn't work. The mantra of some here is "if it's broke, don't fix it".


A lot of people are pretty averse to looking at things long term like that though, because they aren't logical thinking people. All the hear is give people drugs and the idea makes their feelings hurt or angry or whatever and they react accordingly.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.

3 people like this post.
User avatar
CapitalB
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 770
Likes: 340 posts
Liked in: 483 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2017, 12:27 pm

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby HorganIsMyHero » Jan 13th, 2018, 12:19 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:The tour bus is a joke. Wanna hear something really sad. My buddy who just died at christmas. He was offered a naloxne kit. He wasnt about to admit he had a problem. He refused the kit. Died a week or so later


I don't get this post. Haven't you been bashing nalaxone kits for over a year and saying that they promote drug use? Now you're saying that one could have saved your friend. Do you think they're good or not?
HorganIsMyHero
Board Meister
 
Posts: 448
Likes: 119 posts
Liked in: 234 posts
Joined: Aug 5th, 2017, 2:49 pm

Re: The New Overdose Solution thread.

Postby Jflem1983 » Jan 13th, 2018, 12:43 pm

HorganIsMyHero wrote:
Jflem1983 wrote:The tour bus is a joke. Wanna hear something really sad. My buddy who just died at christmas. He was offered a naloxne kit. He wasnt about to admit he had a problem. He refused the kit. Died a week or so later


I don't get this post. Haven't you been bashing nalaxone kits for over a year and saying that they promote drug use? Now you're saying that one could have saved your friend. Do you think they're good or not?



Never bashed the kits. I do take issue with the way they are promoted and handed out free. Anyone with money to spend on heroin has more money than i ever have had.
Naloxone could have saved quite a few people i used to hang out with. At the end of the day though. Its the same as suicide.

Like old george says. Ive had choices.
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"
User avatar
Jflem1983
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4172
Likes: 8868 posts
Liked in: 2373 posts
Joined: Aug 23rd, 2015, 11:38 am

PreviousNext

Return to Bickering Room

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests