Pitbulls, Eh?

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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby Merry » Oct 28th, 2017, 10:57 am

Silverstarqueen wrote:If the laws should be changed, then they certainly can be changed. Laws are generally established by community standards, by elected officials. This apparently is the law that that community's leaders chose, for whatever reason. If there are enough people that want a different law, the elected officials are generally pretty cooperative, if the change is warranted.

Municipal councillors are not infallible; they sometimes don't realize (until it's too late) how weak some of their own by-laws are. And sometimes it takes someone to bring something that needs changing to their attention, before something bad happens.

There are fines for infractions, and they are escalating in most towns. So if this guy's dogs get loose he would be fined x3. If they get loose again, he would be fined something like $150 x3, enough to make someone think it is more worthwhile to upgrade the fence.

If those 3 pit bulls ever get loose the fine from the municipality would probably the least of the dog owner's worries. But the municipality might also have a financial problem, because they would probably be liable for not taking action in a timely manner when they were first informed of the inadequate fencing. Surely it would be better for the municipality to be proactive rather than reactive, and avoid all such difficulties. How would you and the municipal officials feel if those dogs ever got out and attacked a small child? What then?
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby StraitTalk » Nov 1st, 2017, 11:14 pm

I've yet to come here and share this story, but oddly the day after I made a post in this thread I was at the dog park at Knox Mountain (by the tennis courts) and had a bad experience. I was playing with my german shepherd whom I had just put on leash because I saw a new dog coming into the fenced area. I always do this because my GS is 15 months old and I'm still working with her. The owner of this incoming dog did not have it on leash. The moment that second gate opened it ran towards me and my GS growling.. then the dogs started barking at each other... naturally my GS became extremely defensive because I was right there in close proximity... this dog continued to approach and growl. I had no indication of what it was thinking because the tail was docked and the ears were clipped. The dog continued to approach and just before I lifted mine over the fence, the owner ran up, pulled her dog away and leashed it. It was a rottweiler.

This is the kind of stuff I am talking about folks - the lady seemed nice to me and she apologised, but she is clearly not aware of how to handle her dog, and every single time that happens, it will get worse, and worse, and eventually something is going to happen if she continues bringing her dogs to parks.

Anyway, I am surprised at the amount of supposed "life-long" dog owners in here who are more concerned about defending the honour of their breed when they (should) know full well the risks involved with strong, large and historically aggressive dogs. Give your heads a shake, nobody is talking about your dog, we're talking about breeds here.

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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 2nd, 2017, 10:11 am

The big question then would be, which breeds? since at least half the German Shepherds out there would behave similarly to the rottweiler. Most rotties I've seen were very stable and not aggressive at all with other dogs. There are quite a few breeds that might do that in fact (quite a few jack russells are dog aggressive, and many other terrier breeds, some labs, but not all members of those breeds). My Retriever was a sweet sociable guy, until he was attacked at a dog park, many dogs of various breeds would react the same. The fact is, lots of dogs, of many breeds are just not dog park material, for whatever reason. So it has to be up to the owner to be responsible enough to exercise their dog elsewhere (and on leash around other people and dogs), and maybe even with a muzzle to be sure they do no harm if they are aggressive.
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby mexi cali » Nov 2nd, 2017, 10:57 am

For the man in Armstrong, This will play out the way every potentially dangerous situation is allowed to play out every day.

When potentially dangerous scenarios are pointed out, lets say, in a school zone that has blind spots or an uncontrolled intersection that has had seen several accidents but no fatalities or windy roads that have no barricades to prevent vehicles form plunging down a cliff. It takes a death to make a difference.

The neighbor of the pittbulls will have to experience an attack of some sort before anybody stands up and says "hey, that shouldn't have happened".

That's the way the man rolls.
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby StraitTalk » Nov 2nd, 2017, 11:38 am

Silverstarqueen wrote:The big question then would be, which breeds? since at least half the German Shepherds out there would behave similarly to the rottweiler. Most rotties I've seen were very stable and not aggressive at all with other dogs. There are quite a few breeds that might do that in fact (quite a few jack russells are dog aggressive, and many other terrier breeds, some labs, but not all members of those breeds). My Retriever was a sweet sociable guy, until he was attacked at a dog park, many dogs of various breeds would react the same. The fact is, lots of dogs, of many breeds are just not dog park material, for whatever reason. So it has to be up to the owner to be responsible enough to exercise their dog elsewhere (and on leash around other people and dogs), and maybe even with a muzzle to be sure they do no harm if they are aggressive.


There are dozens of breeds out there that are known to be aggressive, german shepherds included. It simply comes down to identifying the breeds which account for the majority of complaints or incidents, and DNA testing all dogs as part of licensing. Licensing costs $40 if your dog is spayed/neutered I believe and the DNA test is about $100 but would likely come way down in cost if it was mandatory. The issue is currently licensing rules are loose, and there is no cadence of accountability, so we have people going as far as to abandon their dogs after an attack, or even in ideal cases where the owner sticks around, do we rarely see them punished for the actions of their dog. That's why we continue to see aggressive dogs, because nobody is afraid of what their dog might do when there are no repercussions.
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 2nd, 2017, 12:41 pm

My dogs would be considered one of those breeds, they have never caused a problem in over thirty years. So why should I be penalized? There are thousands and thousands of owners of some breed which someone else thinks is aggressive. If their dog is fine or is properly supervised so they don't cause a problem, why should those owners be penalized. Stick with penalizing those owners who have ANY breed or mutt and don't follow the local rules, harm others, run around loose, are causing problems off leash or running loose off their property. DNA testing of dogs is unnecessary and ineffective to control dogs' (or owners') behavior, and would be a heckuva problem when it comes to mutts (relatively few dogs are purebred).
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby StraitTalk » Nov 2nd, 2017, 10:35 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote:My dogs would be considered one of those breeds, they have never caused a problem in over thirty years. So why should I be penalized? There are thousands and thousands of owners of some breed which someone else thinks is aggressive. If their dog is fine or is properly supervised so they don't cause a problem, why should those owners be penalized. Stick with penalizing those owners who have ANY breed or mutt and don't follow the local rules, harm others, run around loose, are causing problems off leash or running loose off their property. DNA testing of dogs is unnecessary and ineffective to control dogs' (or owners') behavior, and would be a heckuva problem when it comes to mutts (relatively few dogs are purebred).


We're already penalising "those owners who have ANY breed or mutt and don't follow the local rules, harm others, run around loose, are causing problems off leash or running loose off their property".. it's not working.

It's law, that you license your pet. The only thing I'm proposing that's different is DNA testing which is a small price to pay in ensuring.. that's not penalising anyone, that's modernising pet ownership and improving the welfare of animals and holding owners accountable. I don't understand your last statement, that's the entire point behind a DNA test, to identify the breed as in if it's 60% German Shepherd and 40% Airedale, then it's mostly a GS and is licensed as such.
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 2nd, 2017, 10:55 pm

Dna test only works if dog has two purebred parents. What if dog is mixture of five aggressive breeds, another dog is mixture of five non aggressive breeds, no way to distinguish which is which. I still don't see the logic on why I should pay more for a license if my dog is some wrong breed but I have never had an incident, dog is not loose, always get a license (which is more than most dog owners do).
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby 1669 » Nov 3rd, 2017, 12:49 am

"Michael Golinko, director of plastic surgery at Arkansas Children’s Hospital, saw so many serious injuries to children that he started researching pit bull attacks. “Almost every night we saw a dog bite and, more often than not, the more severe ones were pit bulls,” he says.

Golinko’s study makes for disturbing reading.

“Dog bite injuries remain a common form of pediatric trauma,” the abstract reports. “This single-institution study of 1,616 consecutive dog bite injuries over four years revealed a much higher prevalence of dog bites as compared with other similar centres. Though inpatient admission was rare (9.8 per cent), 58 per cent of all patients required laceration repair, primarily in the emergency department.

“Pit bull bites were implicated in half of all surgeries performed and over 2.5 times as likely to bite in multiple anatomic locations as compared to other breeds,” it states.

Golinko, himself a dog owner, warns that when it comes to children and pit bulls being together, “I think there's too much of a risk from what I’ve seen to advocate or sanction that.”

Naturally, pit bull advocates disagree with studies like Golinko’s."

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2017/10/24/T ... Pit-Bulls/
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby ifwisheswerehorses » Nov 3rd, 2017, 2:55 am

Pit bulls are not nanny dogs – Pit Bull Federation of South Africa
So, you or someone you know is considering adding a pit bull to the family.
August 29, 2017


However, do you or that ‘someone’ have any knowledge of the pit bull breed and know what it entails to be a responsible owner?

Lins Rautenbach, of the Pit Bull Federation of South Africa (PBFSA), provides the following guidelines.

A pit bull is a pit bull, registered or not?

According to Rautenbach, this is not true. As with any breed of dog, temperament is over 60 per cent inherited.

Your puppy’s temperament is pre-determined before birth. No amount of love or training can remove a faulty temperament.

A South African pit bull and how a true pit bull looks.

Online breeders, be they registered or unregistered, do not have an understanding of genetics. They breed male to female and that is where it ends. Being registered does not mean that a dog’s temperament is guaranteed.

How do you choose a breeder, if that is the route you want to take?

* Ask your breeder for copies of both parents’ papers and send them to [email protected].

These will be passed on to the correct people who will look at the pedigrees, ask you questions and advise you.

* Never buy unregistered dogs. There is no proof that what you are buying is a purebred pit bull.

* A pedigree is proof of lineage. It also provides valuable information to those in the know about your dog’s ancestry.

* Registered does not equal well bred. It purely means the dog is registered.

* Ask your breeder for the parents’ show and working titles. If your breeder is not selling on a contract, walk away. Any breeder who is legitimate will want to protect their bloodline. No contract means you and your dog are viewed as an income.

* True breeders will also take your pup back should you not be able to keep him or her.

* Health issues, such as skin issues, heart defects and orthopaedic issues, are genetic. Legitimate breeders will not breed with dogs that have these complaints. Greedy breeders do not care and you could be in for massive vet bills.

You want to adopt a rescue. High-five for wanting to do good, but rescued dogs are not automatic saints.

* Research the shelter you are adopting from. Ask questions, such as the name of the behaviourist and trainer who worked with the dog you plan on adopting.

Ask the rescuer what breed experience they have. If they tell you stories of the nanny dog, it is how you raise them, or they are just like other dogs – walk away. Do not get bullied or feel guilty to adopt a dog who could potentially attack you or your family. Responsible rescuers do not take chances; they are honest about the breed.

What type of home and owner does the American Pit Bull need?

* A home that accepts the breed’s natural propensity for dog aggression.

If you can’t split your dog from other pets when you are not supervising the dog or you cannot split your pit bull from other pets if your pit bull doesn’t get along with your other pets, the pit bull is not for you.

If you want to take your dog to play dates or you want to be able to take your dog to off-leash places, the pit bull is not for you.

* An owner who is dedicated to early and ongoing socialisation and training at a force-free trainer that continues throughout the dog’s life. If you are not able to do this, the pit bull is not for you.

* An owner who is committed to ongoing environmental management. Your pit bull will need to be safely contained in your garden and you are responsible for ensuring that your dog is not a nuisance to neighbours and the people around it.

* An owner who ensures the safety of all children and your dog. These are not nanny dogs – children should be taught to respect dogs and owners must never leave children unattended with the family dog ever.

* An owner who will sterilise their dogs.

Breeding should be left to the very small percentage of people who knows what they are doing.

“Pit bulls are wonderful dogs that require a special owner. If you cannot meet their needs, please admire them from a distance,” said Rautenbach.
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 3rd, 2017, 9:39 am

German shepherds aren't considered to be nanny dogs either. I never had a problem with mine, kids and dogs were playmates from day one. I also had no problem with the neighbor's pitbull, a dog which appeared far more stable and friendly than some of the other dogs that regularly toured our neighborhood. I think it's in how the owner raises the dog. I've seen labs that were pretty sketchy, and collies,cocker spaniels, some husky/malamutes have killed, so I don't know which breeds/mutts we would logically restrict.

Until doggie DNA tests are more accurate, and until the general public would willingly put out for DNA test, there is not much point, since there is no identified "gene" for aggression. If people were going to pony up an additional $100 or so, wouldn't it make more difference to use it to improve enforcement of current bylaws, or provide dog handling course or discount, rather than a useless DNA test? I see all kinds of dog owners who could benefit from even a few dog handling lessons.

http://cbsaustin.com/news/local/how-acc ... -dna-tests
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby ifwisheswerehorses » Nov 3rd, 2017, 9:15 pm

German Shephards were never flouted as 'nanny dogs' and shelters never lied about their backgrounds/histories like they do now with Pitbulls.
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby JLives » Nov 3rd, 2017, 9:30 pm

I hope everyone realizes that "nanny dog" doesn't mean the dog actually babysat the children. It just means they were suitable for kids to be raised with. They're loving, friendly, eager to please and have a high pain and annoyance tolerance with exuberant kids. Many breeds do not, especially the smaller ones. My kids and dogs have had a wonderful experience growing up together.
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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby 1669 » Nov 3rd, 2017, 9:46 pm

"Dr. Michael Golinko, director of plastic surgery at the Arkansas Children's Hospital in Little Rock, cringes when he sees promotional material with children and pit bulls."

"Pit bulls and children are best kept apart," he told The Fifth Estate, based on his studies.

"For the study that was published in July 2016, they analyzed four years of patient charts, which included 1,616 dog bite injuries. "In the two studies, they found incidents involving pit bulls were 2.5 times more likely to involve bites in multiple locations on a child's body than those involving other dogs. The depth and the severity of the bites as well as the number of tissue types injured was also different.

The Atlanta study also found that if a child required an operation, 50 per cent of the time it was following a pit bull bite."

"He sees it as a child safety issue. "I'd much rather be on that side of the argument, advocating for a child's safety than for the right to own a pretty dangerous animal at the end of the day."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pit-bulls ... -1.4299260

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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 3rd, 2017, 10:52 pm

JLives wrote:I hope everyone realizes that "nanny dog" doesn't mean the dog actually babysat the children. It just means they were suitable for kids to be raised with. They're loving, friendly, eager to please and have a high pain and annoyance tolerance with exuberant kids. Many breeds do not, especially the smaller ones. My kids and dogs have had a wonderful experience growing up together.


I grew up next door to a pitbull, we played with her often, just like one of the kids, dressed her up. In those days they weren't called pitbulls. They were called dogs.
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