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Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 4th, 2017, 7:30 am
by Silverstarqueen
For those who prefer facts and not hype in the breed debate, here are Canada's statistics to give an overall idea of the percentages of dog breeds (and circumstances) that caused the worst harm:(Most stats that claim very high deaths from Pitbulls are coming from the U.s., likely less dog control and more crime related dog owners) Having secure enclosure for all dogs and supervising all children would have prevented 36 incidents (88%). Eliminating pitbulls would have prevented 2%, although if owner had a husky/malamute/northern type dog that was unsecured, that's not likely. Why do we use stats on deaths by dog? Because they are the only reasonably accurate stats there are. Stats on injuries in Canada (and elsewhere) are very unreliably collected and reported on.

http://www.chicobandido.com/dbrf-canada/

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 4th, 2017, 11:43 am
by Merry
Silverstarqueen wrote: Having secure enclosure for all dogs .

Crucial component of reducing negative interactions between dogs and people, but one that will only work if strictly enforced.

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 4th, 2017, 12:18 pm
by johnny24
Silverstarqueen wrote:For those who prefer facts and not hype in the breed debate, here are Canada's statistics to give an overall idea of the percentages of dog breeds (and circumstances) that caused the worst harm:(Most stats that claim very high deaths from Pitbulls are coming from the U.s., likely less dog control and more crime related dog owners) Having secure enclosure for all dogs and supervising all children would have prevented 36 incidents (88%). Eliminating pitbulls would have prevented 2%, although if owner had a husky/malamute/northern type dog that was unsecured, that's not likely. Why do we use stats on deaths by dog? Because they are the only reasonably accurate stats there are. Stats on injuries in Canada (and elsewhere) are very unreliably collected and reported on.

http://www.chicobandido.com/dbrf-canada/


Sample size is way too small in Canada, and of course pit bulls aren't going to be responsible for a lot of attacks when they are banned in the largest population areas:

http://www.banpitbulls.org/where/where- ... in-canada/

Why would you not consider stats from the states? Are you claiming that the pit bulls behave differently in the states than they would in Canada?

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 4th, 2017, 1:07 pm
by Fancy
johnny24 wrote:Sample size is way too small in Canada, and of course pit bulls aren't going to be responsible for a lot of attacks when they are banned in the largest population areas:
I haven't looked for all the threads regarding this topic but restricted areas still allow pitbulls - they are not banned in a lot of the places listed. There are still a lot of pitbulls in Ontario (not grandfathered) as people just ignore the law.

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 5th, 2017, 1:44 pm
by Silverstarqueen
Silverstarqueen wrote:For those who prefer facts and not hype in the breed debate, here are Canada's statistics to give an overall idea of the percentages of dog breeds (and circumstances) that caused the worst harm:(Most stats that claim very high deaths from Pitbulls are coming from the U.s., likely less dog control and more crime related dog owners) Having secure enclosure for all dogs and supervising all children would have prevented 36 incidents (88%). Eliminating pitbulls would have prevented 2%, although if owner had a husky/malamute/northern type dog that was unsecured, that's not likely. Why do we use stats on deaths by dog? Because they are the only reasonably accurate stats there are. Stats on injuries in Canada (and elsewhere) are very unreliably collected and reported on.

http://www.chicobandido.com/dbrf-canada/

johnny24 wrote:Sample size is way too small in Canada, and of course pit bulls aren't going to be responsible for a lot of attacks when they are banned in the largest population areas:

http://www.banpitbulls.org/where/where- ... in-canada/

Why would you not consider stats from the states? Are you claiming that the pit bulls behave differently in the states than they would in Canada?


Sample size too small? these stats were from all of Canada )population 30 million, over the course of thirty four years. All deaths due to dogs were included.
The stats from the states have a number of problems. I have looked at some of the numbers and there were inaccuracies for one thing. But even if you accepted that they were roughly accurate, they are based on a population of pitbulls which is unknown, there are no consistent stats relating deaths to breeds. Just the fact that Canada has 2% deaths due to a pitbull, and some 70% due to northern/sled/husky types, whereas in the states they are claiming 60% or more deaths due to pitbull, tells you right there that there is something very different happening in the U.S. The U.s. also has many many time the number of deaths due to guns too compared to Canada, yet guns behave pretty much the same whether they are south or north of the 49th parallel. Of course the difference is in how people use them, owner responsibility, same as for dogs.
The fact remains, that even if there had been a complete (cross country) ban on pitbulls in Canada for the last 34 years, a tiny percentage of the deaths might have been averted, or might have just ended up being caused by some other type of dog instead.

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 5th, 2017, 2:09 pm
by ifwisheswerehorses

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 5th, 2017, 2:22 pm
by Fancy
I'll be glad to see the uncropped ears start appearing.

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 5th, 2017, 4:56 pm
by Silverstarqueen
So how about a Canadian version: Should Northern type dogs be banned, restricted?
We've had one, possibly two (depending on whose definition of pitbull you use) deaths in Canada by pitbull, about thirty times as many by northern type dogs, why didn't the fifth estate include them? Why the stats from the U.S. (hundred deaths since 2013) but not the stats from Canada, deaths caused by pitbull comparatively rare?Was this proposed as a Canadian documentary or a U.s. documentary?Did they compare dog bylaws, or enforcement in Canada and U.s.?

I am not saying that every family is the right choice for any powerful dog of any breed or mutt mix. Some people shouldn't have any dog, let alone a larger or more powerful or high energy dog . I found German Shepherds to be the most wonderful dog, raised them with my children, never feared for their safety. But I would not recommend them to many others because many people have no clue how to raise them. Neither did I when I got my first, but I took her to obedience classes, and later joined a club specifically for training German shepherd dogs, and spoke to many experts about how to handle them.Same goes for many other types of dogs, high energy dogs, especially younger dogs require a great deal of exercise and more training than most people are prepared to do. So why not just get your kid a stuffed dog? If you aren't prepared to put in the time to socialize, train, supervise the dog, and your children properly, then get a cat. They take infinitely less time and trouble to have, and are by and large pretty kid friendly, although you still have to teach your children to respect them and not molest them. Cats often don't mind spending a boring day at home, whereas few dogs are happy on their own all day.

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 5th, 2017, 8:18 pm
by Catsumi
On the CBC news banner tonite a child was killed today by the family pet, a dog. Sorry, I don't know more, just caught the banner.

Poor little child.

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 5th, 2017, 8:37 pm
by Silverstarqueen
Among issues in the Montreal election for Mayor, was the proposed Pitbull ban. Valerie Plante (anti-pitbull ban) won the election.
It was Coderre's turn to be placed on the defensive when the debate turned to his controversial pit bull ban, passed last year in the wake of the mauling death of a Pointe-aux-Trembles woman.

"We don't hate dogs, but we chose to put public safety first," he said.

The administration's pit bull ban is often described as breed-specific legislation (BSL). Animal rights advocates, including the SPCA, argue BSL unfairly targets types of dogs as opposed to irresponsible owners, a position that Plante backs.

"It has to be [an] animal ownership approach," Plante said, adding that a Projet administration would model its approach to dangerous dogs after Calgary's bylaws.

"I'm hearing a lot of this from the American lobby," Coderre said. Plante cut him short, asking if he considered the SPCA a lobby group. "That's part of the lobby too," Coderre replied.

"I find it very terrible to call the SPCA a lobby. They've been working for the city," Plante said, ignoring Coderre as he called out "lobby, again" during her answer."

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 5th, 2017, 10:14 pm
by Farmmaa
Catsumi wrote:On the CBC news banner tonite a child was killed today by the family pet, a dog. Sorry, I don't know more, just caught the banner.

Poor little child.


I can't find anything that confirms this story ?

The last incident was the little boy who was killed by his grandparents two Malamutes in September in Sask.

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 6th, 2017, 2:49 am
by StraitTalk
Silverstarqueen wrote:Dna test only works if dog has two purebred parents.


DNA has genes from any breed present in the animal which can also be quantified to a relatively accurate degree - I've never heard of any tested dog that couldn't have the dominant genes identified and more importantly that's not the point. The point is that dogs must be identified as accurately possible if certain breeds are going to be treated differently, and DNA testing is that way. We need to be smart about this... things have changed. I'm all ears to alternatives, otherwise we're just saying we're okay with the amount of dog attacks that are happening.

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 6th, 2017, 6:04 am
by Silverstarqueen
DNA testing is not accurate for mutts. Example in the story I posted above. Just because these companies send you a result, does not mean that it is very accurate. The more mixed the dog is, the poorer the DNA reliability.
At any rate it has been shown over and over that dog safety is like any other activity. If people follow a few basic rules, 88% of the tragedies could be averted. Simply keeping the dog secure (and if necessary muzzled and leashed in public) would avert the vast majority of problems. DNA test does nothing toward improving the dog's behavior or the owners, and is money that could be far better spent on obedience classes or a better fence for the dog,neutering, things which have actually proven effective.

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 6th, 2017, 6:15 am
by Silverstarqueen
Catsumi wrote:On the CBC news banner tonite a child was killed today by the family pet, a dog. Sorry, I don't know more, just caught the banner.

Poor little child.

Farmmaa wrote:I can't find anything that confirms this story ?

The last incident was the little boy who was killed by his grandparents two Malamutes in September in Sask.


I believe there was a story to this effect, it wasn't a pitbull, so the story is not repeat posted one hundred times over.
Maybe it was this story (now we have to ban Schnauzers and retriever mixes) : http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/21/te ... y-dog.html
No one's probably heard about this story either: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... h-dogs.htm
Or this boy, killed by "family dogs of several different sizes and breeds" https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 522302001/
Maybe it was this one: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot ... -1.4388302
Should we ban all dogs/mutts with Shepherd or lab (and hey why not all husky/malamute mutts) DNA now? Or should we just ban owners who can't seem to supervise a baby and two dogs?

Re: Pitbulls, Eh?

PostPosted: Nov 6th, 2017, 10:09 am
by Catsumi
I found the story.

It was a newborn child bitten to death by family dog, a german shepherd. This happened in Cleveland.

Does it matter what breed killed the child? The baby is dead. Deceased. It will never grow up to have children of her own.

It amazes me that people allow these animals near their helpless children in the first place. Like playing Russian roulette. And yes, I can hear it already about how wonderful it was to have your dog all over your little kid. There will always be excuses and exceptions.

Every time an attack happens, the first words from the owners mouth (if they stuck around) is "well, that's the FIRST time he did THAT!!"