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Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby Hassel99 » Feb 6th, 2018, 12:26 pm

I like Andrew so far, but he has a lot of work ahead of him.

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Re: BC Liberal Party in Opposition, Under Andrew Wilkinson

Postby Cactusflower » Feb 6th, 2018, 12:27 pm

hobbyguy wrote:CF - the history of the BC NDP is to implode. Nothing has changed.

It is easy to promise everybody everything for free when you are perennial losers. That's always been the BC NDP positioning and it falls apart when it hits the messiest of all things - the real world. This month the BC NDP failure to plan platform runs hard up against that reality. Really hard.

The collection of hobbyhorse riders that is the BC NDP are stuck in the position of not having any management experience (outside of an organic vineyard) and being naturally in conflict with the real NDP base. The real NDP base is about 20-25% support, mostly union supporters. The interests of union workers are more aligned with large business (including the large business of government) than with the hobbyhorse riders. That means that the BC NDP should be in favor of large projects (union construction workers etc.) and large business investment (unionized high paying jobs), but that generates a fualt line with the hobbyhorse riders that the NDP pander to in order to get past the 25% support mark.

It is a fun exercise to apply the federal voting pattern as a PR split to BC. 31 Liberal, 26 Conservative, 23 NDP, 7 Green. There are fault lines between Liberals and Conservatives, but they are far weaker than than the fault lines between the NDP and Liberals or Conservatives. The NDP have no "natural partner" within the political landscape. In that calculation, we would see oscillating Liberal and Conservative governments - just as BC experienced in the pre-Socred days (with the CCF/NDP always left out in the cold - despite unionization being much, much higher at the time.).

The problem for the BC NDP is that once in government, the radical fringe hobbyhorse riders can not be satisfied within a cohesive policy. I suspect the BC NDP knew that going into the election, which is why their so called platform was little more than an incohesive grab bag of grievances, promises to fix the unfixable, no costing, no budget, no taxation plan - and just loaded with disingenuous personal attacks.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ndp-bc-election-alberta-pipelines-1.4089339

"It's easy for the NDP to be cohesive when they're out of power," said Bratt.

"But when some are in power, you see those breakdowns occur."

We have already seen some of those breakdowns occur (like over site C).

Andrew Wilkinson can quietly play chess, and that creates the situation where hapless Johnny Horgan is stuck between two Andrews playing chess, while he plays checkers with one hand and whack-a-mole with the other. Even a minor checkers move requires that Horgan play whack-a-mole with hobbyhorse rider factions rising up. So yup, give the BC NDP a little rope, and they will hang themselves.

Andrew Weaver can continue his chess moves to strip away the hobby horse riders from the NDP, and Andrew Wilkinson can re-position the BC Liberals a bit to the left (closer to the center) while showing a steady hand and competence.

Wilkinson knows that the BC NDP appetite for PR is weak, and they are very vulnerable there. He also knows that PR or FPTP, the BC LIberals OR the BC Liberals + BC Conservatives are in the driver's seat. That makes the PR fight a win-win for the BC Liberals, and lose-lose for the BC NDP - who will most likely lose 1/3 of their support if PR goes through.

Wilkinson is already shifting the BC LIberals away from the "top down" approach that allowed the BC NDP to paint them as unresponsive. He is already positioning the BC LIberals for a PR fight (which as I said, the BC Liberals win either way) by setting up a party membership vote on the matter.


Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what transpires in QP, won't we? I think you're expecting far too much of Wilkinson. I think Horgan will make mincemeat out of him.
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Re: BC Liberal Party in Opposition, Under Andrew Wilkinson

Postby The Green Barbarian » Feb 6th, 2018, 12:30 pm

Cactusflower wrote: I think Horgan will make mincemeat out of him.


LOL
This current unelected NDP government is an abortion.

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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby normaM » Feb 6th, 2018, 12:57 pm

GB you always get steamed about NDP and Green joining up, yet it was ok for Andy Panda to do it with De Jong?
Because of course Mikey been so great as a Liberal :)
"In 2010, De Jong faced further controversy when, as attorney general, he approved the payment of $6 million in legal fees for Liberal Party insiders David Basi and Robert Virk who pleaded guilty to charges of breach of trust and accepting benefits in connection with the sale of BC Rail in 2003."
And then the firing of Health workers, over nothing.
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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby The Green Barbarian » Feb 6th, 2018, 1:17 pm

normaM wrote:GB you always get steamed about NDP and Green joining up, yet it was ok for Andy Panda to do it with De Jong?


I don't mind as long as it's not the nutbag NDP or lunatic Greens. That being said, I am no fan of the BC LP either, they're just the best of the worst. We need another option. I keep saying that, but the automaton NDP Kool-Aid drinkers don't hear it. Don't any of the brain-washed NDP zombies want to own up to just how *bleep* their party is? If not, why not? Are you that clueless?
This current unelected NDP government is an abortion.

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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby Old Techie » Feb 6th, 2018, 1:28 pm

gordon_as wrote:
Old Techie wrote:I can't think of anything more upsetting to the electorate, than to see their tax money go to supporting something they detest,


And yet you can't figure out why your party is no longer in power.


I do know, and far more so than you apparently.

Unlike the NDP sheep, those who lean toward the Liberals, have no issue demonstrating their annoyance, when questionable things happen (a lesson you NDP would do well to learn). In the last election many otherwise Liberal voters wishing to send the Liberals a signal regarding Christy Clark, parked their votes with the Greens assuming it was safe to do so, based on a mistaken reading of Weaver's ethics.

That's what put the NDP in power and don't you forget it!

I also know that the thing the voters hated most was Clark, and she is gone now.

I also know that Horgan said he would never take tax dollars for political parties, and we know how that's going.

I also know that the same members of the workforce, who got miffed at Dix last election, for doing an about flip on the pipeline, will be just as unimpressed with Horgan taking the ever popular "NO" approach as well.

I also know that despite campaigning on a pledge of "change", the NDP is behaving exactly the same as last time, and voters will remember that as well.

I also know that removing the bridge tolls, will in the end turn out to be nothing more than a shell game, and I'm sure the lower mainland voters, will be just ecstatic, once that realization kicks in.

I also know that despite how evil you wish to paint the Liberals, the NDP still hasn't won a popular vote this century, something that should have been a piece of cake for you, given how disliked Clark was.

Finally, I can't say this one with certainty yet, but have every reason to believe (based on history), that given a bit more time, economic indicators will also show, that the NDP have a negative effect on BC's economy, because of ineptitude, because they keep saying NO to projects, and because they create instability which scares away investment. Unstable government is a poison pill, to any business contemplating moving here, or investing here.

If there's anything else you'd like to know feel free to ask.
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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby George+ » Feb 6th, 2018, 1:53 pm

Stocks doing fine here.
Credit rating fine.
Unemployed low.
Teachers happier.
Etc.
And all in a few months.

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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby Old Techie » Feb 6th, 2018, 2:10 pm

^^ Sure sure George, and if it wasn't inherited from the Liberals in this condition, you and a bunch of others would be screaming how horrible of a shape the NDP took it over in.

Since it's in great shape they'll just claim credit for it, as if they've done anything so far.

Most with an understanding know that you can't judge a government change in the first few months, as it takes a while for negative impacts to manifest themselves.

We already know that some investment was pulled, when it became clear the NDP might well be governing.

Don't expect anything different from NDP bubble dwellers though, so carry on.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."
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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby The Green Barbarian » Feb 6th, 2018, 4:31 pm

George+ wrote:Stocks doing fine here.
Credit rating fine.
Unemployed low.
Teachers happier.
Etc.
And all in a few months.


so you are saying then by that same token that the current US economic prosperity is all due to Trump and nothing to do with Obama? Interesting. That's not what the bitter Trump-haters I know are telling me.
This current unelected NDP government is an abortion.

Not all leftists are stupid, but most stupid people are leftists - Dr. Don Boys

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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby The Green Barbarian » Feb 6th, 2018, 4:33 pm

gordon_as wrote:
And yet you can't figure out why your party is no longer in power.


what I can't figure out is why the NDP sacrificed two ridings and a majority government for racist and sexist nomination policies.
This current unelected NDP government is an abortion.

Not all leftists are stupid, but most stupid people are leftists - Dr. Don Boys
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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby normaM » Feb 6th, 2018, 4:52 pm

Let's start our new party GB. Catchy name and we can probably make inroads. They all seem to lie, sad really.
So first a name
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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 6th, 2018, 5:24 pm

I also know that the thing the voters hated most was Clark, and she is gone now.


Liberal voters wishing to send the Liberals a signal regarding Christy Clark,


Ah, now some truths coming from a (former) staunch Christy Liberal!! Too bad the didn't twig to her absolute incompetence years ago!!!

Now back to Wilkinson, OK?
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?

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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 6th, 2018, 5:28 pm

Expect 'a difference' or 'a change' with Wilkinson??:

"Mirror, mirror, on the wall"
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Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?

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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby Urbane » Feb 6th, 2018, 5:36 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:Expect 'a difference' or 'a change' with Wilkinson??:
Those who really think that Gordon Campbell, Christy Clark, and the Liberal government were terrible are never going to vote Liberal anyway. Wilkinson needs the votes of those close to the political centre and when you see the stupidity going on in Victoria now with the attempts to block the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion his chances of getting those votes are rising by the day.

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Re: Wilkinson: Leader of the Oppostion 2018

Postby hobbyguy » Feb 6th, 2018, 5:38 pm

flamingfingers wrote:Expect 'a difference' or 'a change' with Wilkinson??:

"Mirror, mirror, on the wall"


I notice the BC NDP stalwarts always resort to the personal rather than factual. Wilkinson doesn't have to shine, he just has to stay clam, and let the NDP implode as they always do. The BC NDP are cracking apart in front of our eyes. Failing to govern reasonably, and after all, that's what the voters want - reasonable governance.

The two Andrews will shred the NDP, taking their shots strategically - because they know the BC NDP don't have a strategy (a strategy requires a plan, and the BC NDP failed to plan), just tactics - and ones that are wearing thin really fast. Betcha Lana and Claire already have their knives out of the sheath and are stropping them.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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