Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby rustled » Nov 25th, 2018, 10:28 am

Interesting.

Could it be that governing effectively is far more difficult than it looked?

Could it be that they hadn't done their homework while in opposition?

Could it be that they made promises they ought not to have made?

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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby burnedatstake » Nov 25th, 2018, 10:32 am

could it be that liberal supporters are hypocrites that never held their party and leaders to promises and policy as much as they are the NDP now? regardless of how much they allege they do or did?
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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby hobbyguy » Nov 25th, 2018, 12:04 pm

I would comment, however, that there is nothing new about BCTF "activists" screaming for more money. Always with them is more money, more money, more money, gimme more money. Never mind if that money is spent wisely, or heaven forbid efficiently.

It is time for the BCTF activists to accept reality, and instead of always "gimme mo' money", work on efficiency of education delivery. Too many times BCTF demands are contrary to the greater good. \there is "x" amount of $$$ - but the BCTF activists want it all for themselves, when in many cases lower cost CUPE members can be just as effective - and even more effective because they don't demand ridiculous wages etc. and there can be more of them.

How many times do we see stories similar to but not as bad as this: https://www.cfjctoday.com/article/641105/westwold-elementary-shuts-its-doors-after-no-students-enrol

They were actually going to run a school with 8 students....
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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby burnedatstake » Nov 25th, 2018, 9:29 pm

there is nothing new about business and chamber of commerce "activists" screaming for more tax breaks. Always with them is more breaks, more profits, more freedom, gimme more government access. Never mind if the profits are spent selfishly, or heaven forbid off of the taxpayers backs.

It is time for the business and chamber of commerce activists to accept reality, and instead of always "gimme mo' tax breaks", work on efficiency of the business effectively - and not off workers and taxpayers backs. Too many times business and chamber of commerce demands are contrary to the greater good - it is only for their own good. for instance say creating property bubbles bursting at the seams or using tax breaks simply to pad for retirement. there is a loss to government revenues from tax breaks - but the business and chamber of commerce activists want it all for themselves acting like leeches on society, when in many cases fairly paid employees can be more effective in society - more effective because they boost the immediate economy with high wages etc. and there should be more employees to have that revenue.

i think this sounds better. and makes more sense.
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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby The Green Barbarian » Nov 26th, 2018, 11:06 am

burnedatstake wrote:could it be that liberal supporters are hypocrites that never held their party and leaders to promises and policy as much as they are the NDP now? regardless of how much they allege they do or did?


Not sure if they are hypocrites so much as no one but really stupid people want the NDP in power. So there's that.
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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby hobbyguy » Nov 30th, 2018, 1:54 pm

Generally speaking I have been complimentary of Adrian Dix and his efforts regarding health care. Unfortunately, he and the BC NDP have made a move that undermines the recent successes.

The problem surrounds the issue where many, many British Columbians do not have, and can not get, a family doctor. One of the significant problems in the GP shortage is that GP's are a big proportion - about 57% - of retiring doctors, while new graduates (there are not enough anyway) are only selecting the GP path at a rate of about 36% - doubling down on the growing shortage of GP's.

The pay structure for those that graduate in family medicine (GP's) that the BC government under the NDP has set provides a disincentive for those scarce GP graduates to become family doctors. Many newly graduate GP's will be carrying around $200K in student loan debt, so $$$ is a big issue for them.

The figures that I have seen are a pay structure where the lowest paid position available to these new graduates pays GPs at a rate of $104/hr, while those who go into the BC NDP initiative of Urgent Primary Care centers get $150/hr, those who go into being Hospitalists (GP's within hospitals) get $157/hr, and those who go into Community Health Centers get $158/hr.

So, IF I was a new graduate in family medicine, carrying a whack of student loans, which way would I go? Probably not into practice as a GP. Pretty hard to turn down an extra $50/hr.

That means that we can expect the shortage of GPs to not only grow, but do so much, much more rapidly.

It also means, that as family medical access is forced more and more into these large institutions, that health care costs will climb. Institutional medicine is much, much more expensive, and point blank, from the perspective of family medicine, not nearly as good.

Adrian, methinks you have stubbed your toe badly on this.
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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby flamingfingers » Nov 30th, 2018, 3:10 pm

^^As if the GP shortage is a new problem:

GP for Me program unlikely to reach promise of a doctor for all in B.C.

CBC News · Posted: Apr 30, 2015 7:21 PM PT | Last Updated: April 30, 2015

Some 200,000 British Columbians are still without a family doctor, says Doctors of B.C. (Getty Images)
91 comments
Three years after setting out to ensure everyone in B.C. has access to a family doctor by 2015, the B.C. government says it's unlikely it will reach that goal.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.3054972
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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby hobbyguy » Nov 30th, 2018, 3:47 pm

FF - nobody said the GP shortage is a new problem. Do you not agree that this salary structure will make it worse, not better??
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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby flamingfingers » Nov 30th, 2018, 4:59 pm

hg wrote:

The figures that I have seen are a pay structure where the lowest paid position available to these new graduates pays GPs at a rate of $104/hr, while those who go into the BC NDP initiative of Urgent Primary Care centers get $150/hr, those who go into being Hospitalists (GP's within hospitals) get $157/hr, and those who go into Community Health Centers get $158/hr.


I am curious to see a link and read the article that you got this from. Thanks.
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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby Urbane » Nov 30th, 2018, 5:53 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:^^As if the GP shortage is a new problem:
You're correct. We've not yet recovered from the 1990's NDP government reducing the number of medical students. Is the salary structure to which HG refers going to help or hurt? I think he makes a good point when he says it will hurt.
"Spectemur agendo"

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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby flamingfingers » Nov 30th, 2018, 5:58 pm

Urbane wrote:

You're correct. We've not yet recovered from the 1990's NDP government reducing the number of medical students
.

:spitcoffee:

Is the salary structure to which HG refers going to help or hurt? I think he makes a good point when he says it will hurt.


Before commenting one way or the other, I need corroboration that the quoted 'salaries' are in fact a fact.
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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby Urbane » Nov 30th, 2018, 6:19 pm

^^ Actually, training fewer doctors does contribute to the shortage of doctors and that did happen in the 1990's. Duh! Even with the increased number of students coming out of our medical schools that we now see we need to make sure that the compensation encourages students to become GP's. Don't you think?
"Spectemur agendo"

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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby flamingfingers » Nov 30th, 2018, 6:33 pm

Actually, training fewer doctors does contribute to the shortage of doctors and that did happen in the 1990's.


Well, ya, duh!! That was almost 30 years ago. So the Libs couldn't 'fix' this in all their years in power? Your extreme partisanship is making you look extra silly!!
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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby Urbane » Nov 30th, 2018, 6:42 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:
    Well, ya, duh!! That was almost 30 years ago. So the Libs couldn't 'fix' this in all their years in power? Your extreme partisanship is making you look extra silly!!
No, I was in favour of the Liberals adding new medical schools in this province. Those who weren't favour are the ones who look silly. As to your comment about extreme partisanship . . . that's funny! Talk about irony! Anyway, let's get back on topic because Hobbyguy has raised an important point.
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Re: Thanks for NOTHING GreenDP

Postby flamingfingers » Nov 30th, 2018, 6:49 pm

Urb wrote:
No, I was in favour of the Liberals adding new medical schools in this province. Those who weren't favour are the ones who look silly.


I can't think of a single person who was opposed to adding more educational opportunities for medical students!!!!

And,
We still require confirmation that the 'salary scales' are fact, not conjecture, before any real debate would be meaningful.
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