Random drug testing for welfare recipients

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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby W105 » Aug 16th, 2018, 6:39 pm

no Jflem..Alan does not have a job, he has said many times that's he's retired and rich...

and no, I too have never been "secretly drug tested" when going to the hospital for a medical issue...

if we wanna drug test anybody who receives taxpayers funds, then start with the ones who take the most..the government employees...6 yrs as a MLA and you receive a golden pension plan and it's a nice one...let's examine who really is gouging our tax money...it's not the poor because they make up a very small percentage of our population...

well paid government employees (with juicy) pension plans do...

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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby alanjh595 » Aug 16th, 2018, 6:44 pm

savvybusinessman wrote:^No I don't have annual blood tests and if my blood is ever drawn I look at the requisition sheets and specifically ask 'why." Never has a doctor said the blood is being drawn to check for drug use.

If you're trying to say doctors secretly test people for drugs take it to the conspiracy section.


Don't you ever wonder why each vial is 100 times larger than the sample required to test? Don't you think that if the lab found something that was not right with the 1st test, they wouldn't retest?
You do realize that if any of those tests can lead to further tests that are not on the original requisition?
If the lab finds something unusual, they can also call the Dr and he can have tests performed that you are may not be aware of?
If you behaved in front of your Dr. the same way that you do on these forums, he would probably order a full battery of chemical, biological, and hormonal tests to try and explain your behavior.
I don't need blood tests results to determine that there is something wrong with you.
Have you ever gone in and demanded to the Dr. to see and copy your complete medical chart to have it thoroughly examined evaluated by a second Dr. ?
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby alanjh595 » Aug 16th, 2018, 6:49 pm

W105 wrote:no Jflem..Alan does not have a job, he has said many times that's he's retired and rich...

and no, I too have never been "secretly drug tested" when going to the hospital for a medical issue...

if we wanna drug test anybody who receives taxpayers funds, then start with the ones who take the most..the government employees...6 yrs as a MLA and you receive a golden pension plan and it's a nice one...let's examine who really is gouging our tax money...it's not the poor because they make up a very small percentage of our population...

well paid government employees (with juicy) pension plans do...


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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby savvybusinessman » Aug 16th, 2018, 7:55 pm

alanjh595 wrote:[Don't you ever wonder why each vial is 100 times larger than the sample required to test? Don't you think that if the lab found something that was not right with the 1st test, they wouldn't retest?
You do realize that if any of those tests can lead to further tests that are not on the original requisition?
If the lab finds something unusual, they can also call the Dr and he can have tests performed that you are may not be aware of?
If you behaved in front of your Dr. the same way that you do on these forums, he would probably order a full battery of chemical, biological, and hormonal tests to try and explain your behavior.
I don't need blood tests results to determine that there is something wrong with you.
Have you ever gone in and demanded to the Dr. to see and copy your complete medical chart to have it thoroughly examined evaluated by a second Dr. ?


You're getting into complete nonsense territory. Yes, I've asked to see my medical file - there are no drug tests. People are free to ask their doctors questions and check their medical history. Requisition forms can be questioned and each box that is ticked has an definition or explanation.

If you think you're being secretly drug tested and manipulated by your doctor you need to stop snorting coke.

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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby alanjh595 » Aug 16th, 2018, 7:58 pm

savvybusinessman wrote:You're getting into complete nonsense territory. Yes, I've asked to see my medical file - there are no drug tests. People are free to ask their doctors questions and check their medical history. Requisition forms can be questioned and each box that is ticked has an definition or explanation.

If you think you're being secretly drug tested and manipulated by your doctor you need to stop snorting coke.


There you go....no more drug problem, just say no.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby oneh2obabe » Aug 16th, 2018, 9:39 pm

alanjh595 wrote:Have you ever gone in and demanded to the Dr. to see and copy your complete medical chart to have it thoroughly examined evaluated by a second Dr. ?

No need to demand my medical file - all lab results are entered into my eHealth account which I can print and take to my doctor so we can go over any major changes from previous years. He also gives me a printed copy of all x-ray results.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby Omnitheo » Aug 18th, 2018, 11:09 am

Working in the medical field I can confirm that labs do not test for things beyond what the doctor has ordered. There are specific requisitions for specific blood tests, and different facilities perform different tests. Labs are not spending money to perform tests not directly ordered and signed off by a physician.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby alanjh595 » Aug 18th, 2018, 11:25 am

Omnitheo wrote:Working in the medical field I can confirm that labs do not test for things beyond what the doctor has ordered. There are specific requisitions for specific blood tests, and different facilities perform different tests. Labs are not spending money to perform tests not directly ordered and signed off by a physician.


Does the physician not also have the right and the capacity to fax over an addendum to the original lab requisition if perhaps the Dr. has a suspicion that the patient is aware of and/or doubts the requisition contents?
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby savvybusinessman » Aug 18th, 2018, 1:23 pm

There were some informative studies and posts here before you decided to go off your rocker and decide to discuss doctors ordering secret blood tests and lying to patients. Your disdain of doctors and paranoia isn't the topic.

How much money would it cost to drug test each and every SA recipient on a regular basis?
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby Omnitheo » Aug 18th, 2018, 1:55 pm

atenbacon wrote:
Omnitheo wrote:Why don’t we do random drug testing for all citizens? Anyone who takes advantage of anything that uses taxpayer dollars. You ever go to see a doctor or to the hospital? Random drug testing. You drive on the roads. Random drug testing! Sounds like a great idea to ensure that tax dollars aren’t going to help anyone who uses any kind of drug.


Whoa there cowboy! One hurdle at a time I suggest. The biggest social impact and best bang for the buck at this time would be testing for those on social assistance. Just think, a portion of people going from being on social assistance to becoming working tax payers. Testing all citizens that already pay taxes is maybe step two or three in the process. I do agree though in a sense, if the first step works, go to the next... which may be road safety per your examples. But if the programs fail to yield results then they should end.


How would that be the best social impact though? Social assistance helps people get into the work force. Or helps cover the need for a livelihood keeping people off the streets. Wouldn’t removing that prevent the ROI on gained revenue and society? I feel spending a pittance on the bare minimum to keep someone afloat meanwhile forcing them to go through career assistance programs that lead to more gained taxes is a working model, even if some of that money is spent on harmful things like alcohol that could be counter to those goals.

If we’re looking at tax dollar expenditures that are potentially enabling further destructive behaviour, then we should also perform random drug, or harmful substance tests to qualify anyone for public healthcare. After all this makes up a much larger piece of the pie in where tax dollars go, and why should we aid in organ failure for those who participate in such activity? It is only enabling them to damage themselves further at taxpayer expense.

Likewise, as part of your insurance, particularly here in BC, you should be subject to random tests, before you even get on the road. Those using substances, prescription or otherwise that could have a detrimental effect on your driving abilities are a potential risk to combining those activities with driving. This costs taxpayers large amounts in emergency service operations that could be saved by only allowing the use of municipal and highway systems to low risk confirmed sober individuals.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby alanjh595 » Aug 18th, 2018, 2:16 pm

savvybusinessman wrote:You're getting into complete nonsense territory. Yes, I've asked to see my medical file - there are no drug tests. People are free to ask their doctors questions and check their medical history. Requisition forms can be questioned and each box that is ticked has an definition or explanation.

If you think you're being secretly drug tested and manipulated by your doctor you need to stop snorting coke.


Talk about being paranoid.
Question for all the other viewers........
How many of you have asked to see your medical file? Why did you ask for it?
How many have actually read/questioned the lab requisition form from their Dr. ?
How many have had any doubt that the tests requested are not valid and have objected to that test being done?

ONLY someone that has a disdain and mistrust for their physician would question a blood test or the contents of their medical records.
What are you going to do about it if you disagree? get a new DR. ?
......Too late.....it is already recorded on the electronic medical records that you can not change. If one was to make objections to specific tests or disagree with a DR. ........that too would be on the permanent, electronic, records that are available to all BC Dr.s.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby savvybusinessman » Aug 18th, 2018, 2:32 pm

Omnitheo wrote:Social assistance helps people get into the work force. Or helps cover the need for a livelihood keeping people off the streets. Wouldn’t removing that prevent the ROI on gained revenue and society? I feel spending a pittance on the bare minimum to keep someone afloat meanwhile forcing them to go through career assistance programs that lead to more gained taxes is a working model, even if some of that money is spent on harmful things like alcohol that could be counter to those goals.


To qualify for Social Assistance in the first place don't people have to attend certain workshops about job hunting and resume writing? A buddy of mine had to do this and complained about it but the extra classes and workshops helped him get a better job than he had before.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby savvybusinessman » Aug 18th, 2018, 2:36 pm

alanjh595 wrote:ONLY someone that has a disdain and mistrust for their physician would question a blood test or the contents of their medical records.


Or someone who is health conscious and wants to know exactly what is going on. I'm not sure if everyone has to do so but when I applied for EI I needed a couple parts of my medical file photocopied and sent to a government office.

I know people who apply for Disability need to have at least one doctor appointment that goes through their medical file and some parts have to be copied.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby Jflem1983 » Aug 18th, 2018, 2:41 pm

Simple solutions. Stop going to the doctor. Stop relying on the government.

See a full grown man does not need a government or a doctor for much
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby Omnitheo » Aug 18th, 2018, 2:43 pm

savvybusinessman wrote:
Omnitheo wrote:Social assistance helps people get into the work force. Or helps cover the need for a livelihood keeping people off the streets. Wouldn’t removing that prevent the ROI on gained revenue and society? I feel spending a pittance on the bare minimum to keep someone afloat meanwhile forcing them to go through career assistance programs that lead to more gained taxes is a working model, even if some of that money is spent on harmful things like alcohol that could be counter to those goals.


To qualify for Social Assistance in the first place don't people have to attend certain workshops about job hunting and resume writing? A buddy of mine had to do this and complained about it but the extra classes and workshops helped him get a better job than he had before.


This is true. I too went through this program. The career path it helped set me on lead to where I am today.
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