Explosives Targeting Dems

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Re: Explosives Targeting Dems

Postby fvkasm2x » Nov 1st, 2018, 10:06 am

Ka-El wrote:
white men are ‘the biggest terror threat in this country'

<snip>

… some research has shown that over the past decade, there have been almost twice as many terrorist incidents carried out on U.S. soil by right-wing extremists — most of whom are white — than by Islamic extremists. A 2017 report from the Nation Institute’s Investigative Fund and the Center for Investigative Reporting’s Reveal found that from 2008 to 2016, there were 115 incidents involving right-wing extremists and that those that ended in death were more deadly than incidents that were carried out by other groups. A study from the New America Foundation showed similar findings.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/cnn ... &ocid=iehp


Depends on your definition of "biggest threat" I suppose.

If you live in Detroit or Chicago, you're about 800x more likely to get shot by a black person than you are a white person.

If we're talking serial killer, mass murder or domestic terrorist... then yes, it's definitely white male.


Depends on how you want to skew the definition of "threat" and how likely you are to actually be killed by someone. The homicide rate for black victims if 4x that of white victims. 80% of those murders are done by fellow blacks. So the biggest threat to black people, is black people.

The biggest threat to rich liberals like Don Lemon, is rich white republicans.
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Re: Explosives Targeting Dems

Postby Glacier » Nov 1st, 2018, 10:21 am

Verum wrote:except that some of his supporters have made that very claim when they plotted to bomb a mosque:
https://globalnews.ca/news/4613669/kansas-mosque-bombing-plot-trump/

Cool story, bro. Some of Bernie's supporters have committed some pretty violent acts too, but that doesn't mean Bernie supports violence. If a fan of yours blew up a building full of capitalists because you expressed critical views about capitalism, you are by no means responsible. There's a huge difference between criticizing ideas and even people and calling violence. Words are not violence.
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Re: Explosives Targeting Dems

Postby Verum » Nov 1st, 2018, 11:03 am

Glacier wrote:
Verum wrote:except that some of his supporters have made that very claim when they plotted to bomb a mosque:
https://globalnews.ca/news/4613669/kansas-mosque-bombing-plot-trump/

Cool story, bro. Some of Bernie's supporters have committed some pretty violent acts too, but that doesn't mean Bernie supports violence. If a fan of yours blew up a building full of capitalists because you expressed critical views about capitalism, you are by no means responsible. There's a huge difference between criticizing ideas and even people and calling violence. Words are not violence.

Did they claim that Bernie's rhetoric encouraged them to do so?
If a fan of mine were to blow up a building full of capitalists because I was in a leadership position of significant power, and they suggested that they were encouraged to do so because of some violent and bigoted rhetoric I repeatedly used (which I don't believe I do), then yes I would be morally if not legally somewhat culpable.
You could use your argument to absolve the likes of Manson of the Tate murders, since he didn't kill anyone and just used his words to encourage others to do the same. Or the likes of Anjem Choudary and many others. Words may not be violence, but they can be used to encourage others to engage in violence, whether you intend them to or not.
A leader with the power and influence that Trump has can cause huge harm with the kind of comments he has and continues to make. He should be more careful and mindful, but frankly I doubt he cares if other people die.
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Re: Explosives Targeting Dems

Postby Glacier » Nov 1st, 2018, 1:04 pm

Verum wrote:Did they claim that Bernie's rhetoric encouraged them to do so?

Did the Jew killer claim to be a Trump supporter? Nope. Did he hate Jews because of Trump? Nope. Did he do it because Trump was calling for violence? Nope.
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Re: Explosives Targeting Dems

Postby Verum » Nov 1st, 2018, 1:25 pm

Glacier wrote:
Verum wrote:Did they claim that Bernie's rhetoric encouraged them to do so?

Did the Jew killer claim to be a Trump supporter? Nope. Did he hate Jews because of Trump? Nope. Did he do it because Trump was calling for violence? Nope.

So now you're moving the goal posts? That's not the only act of violence people have attributed to being somewhat a result of Trump's rhetoric and this thread is specifically about the explosives sent in the mail to Democrats and other's Trump has targeted.

Additionally, if you look at the post by Omnitheo you were responding to, he makes no reference to the Tree of Life shootings/murders. So, neither the thread, nor the post you were responding to were about such and you are trying to limit this to just that one incident? No that just doesn't work. There are clear examples of Trump supporters engaged in acts of violence against people Trump has targeted and some have even claimed to be influenced by Trump in their actions. Whether one murderer of your preference claims to be so or not is irrelevant.

If you honestly think that people aren't influenced to commit acts of violence by words spoken by people in power, you should have no problem with the likes of Manson or Choudary and honestly that same logic carried to its logical conclusion would somewhat absolve many of the World's greatest mass murderers of their actions, since they didn't kill the people directly themselves, they just ordered others to do so. Orders are just words.
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Re: Explosives Targeting Dems

Postby Glacier » Nov 1st, 2018, 1:30 pm

Verum wrote:So now you're moving the goal posts? That's not the only act of violence people have attributed to being somewhat a result of Trump's rhetoric and this thread is specifically about the explosives sent in the mail to Democrats and other's Trump has targeted.

Oops, sorry, I had by threads mixed up. Yes, I've already said that this guy was a Trump supporter, and has some responsibility just as Bernie does for the guy who shot at Democrats, maybe 0.1% responsibility. Ultimately, only you are responsible for your violence. If I say that Judaism sucks, and you go kill Jews, you are responsible and get off scott free. If I say you should kill Jews, then I'm also responsible.

As for Choudary, interesting how people are getting upset about Bannon debating David Frum in Canada this week because it "might insight hate", but for some reason had not problem with Choudary taking party in a debate on CNN or the BBC.
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Re: Explosives Targeting Dems

Postby Verum » Nov 1st, 2018, 1:45 pm

Glacier wrote:
Verum wrote:So now you're moving the goal posts? That's not the only act of violence people have attributed to being somewhat a result of Trump's rhetoric and this thread is specifically about the explosives sent in the mail to Democrats and other's Trump has targeted.

Oops, sorry, I had by threads mixed up. Yes, I've already said that this guy was a Trump supporter, and has some responsibility just as Bernie does for the guy who shot at Democrats, maybe 0.1% responsibility. Ultimately, only you are responsible for your violence. If I say that Judaism sucks, and you go kill Jews, you are responsible and get off scott free. If I say you should kill Jews, then I'm also responsible.

What if you say "The Jews are the enemy of the people"? Does that change things at all?
As for Choudary, interesting how people are getting upset about Bannon debating David Frum in Canada this week because it "might insight hate", but for some reason had not problem with Choudary taking party in a debate on CNN or the BBC.

I wasn't aware that the BBC was allowing Choudary back on and I thought that they had basically been lambasted for giving him air time in the past. I'm quite sure I saw a segment where one of the BBC presenters basically admitted regret for doing so.
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Explains why so few people reply to me, and why I might not reply
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Re: Explosives Targeting Dems

Postby Glacier » Nov 1st, 2018, 2:06 pm

Verum wrote:What if you say "The Jews are the enemy of the people"? Does that change things at all?

If Trump said that, then yes. It's not a call for violence, so maybe 0.3% responsible.
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