How leftists become bullies

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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby rustled » Dec 4th, 2018, 5:49 pm

Queen K wrote:
ferri wrote: :topic: How leftists become bullies


Except that it leaves out the very OPs statements so how do Right winger become bullies? Or do we need a separate thread for that one?

:135:

Maybe you could discuss the data presented in the video provided in the OP? The study and its findings.
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby The Green Barbarian » Dec 4th, 2018, 5:56 pm

jimmy4321 wrote:How is it that the right have become the champion of Fake News??


They wanted to be like the Left?
Who is a fan of "Little Potato", the snollygoster Justin Trudeau? All you have to do is show up here, post a bunch of lies, and get paid! The LIEberal mantra: If you can no longer motivate with hope, you turn to hate.
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby Queen K » Dec 4th, 2018, 6:06 pm

:spitcoffee: Oh come on now. <--------sorry, I meant the "data."
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby Queen K » Dec 5th, 2018, 7:08 pm

Gone_Fishin wrote:This is exactly what's occurring in Canadian schools, and society, pushed by the likes of Justin Trudeau. Remember Catherine McKenna's "I have no time for those with a view different from mine" (para)? Just look at the leftists on this board, should you need an example or twenty.



OOH Gone Fishin, did you read the comments underneath?

You're going to love love love this:

"Depends on what is on offer, I suppose, but in general liberals are more tolerant of cultural diversity and diverse opinions than conservatives, in part because conservatives place their highest more values on the foundations of Respect/Authority and Ingroup/Loyalty, so conservative groups tend not to tolerate dissenting views (because dissent indicates to them a lack of respect for authority and a lack of loyalty to the group). Obviously liberals are more accepting of diverse lifestyles: I’ve not seen conservatives march for (or demand) LGBQT rights, for example, and racism is more characteristic of conservatives than liberals.

OTOH, liberals reject certain ideas that conservatives readily accept—e.g., that the government should make decisions on women’s healthcare issues, not the woman or her doctor.

This might be of interest:

^^^ Yes, this is right underneath that video where a mealy mouthed conservative is openly mocking and laughing at high school girls for experimenting with views labeled as "Leftist." He praises the conservative girl and then proceeds to tell her to treat her high school mates like "children."

Gone Fishin, I didn't even have to see the damn video at first because I called it right away, a self serving, prop for you to condescend to liberal views in front of your conservative friends. That's why I immediate said, "pot meet kettle" and was spot on.

As for the data indicating that liberals unfriend their social media conservative friends by three times more often, and backed up by Scientific American, I have to ask if reasons are given.

1. I want to see the survey and see if I can spot flaws in the questions as they were worded.
2. I want to see if anecdotal, you know, personal accounts of why they'd unfriend conservative friends, know why? Because the dialogue between conservatives and liberals is becoming intolerably toxic. When you see your conservative friends on facebook posting ridiculous stories and calling liberals "Liberals" and the like, what does anyone expect? How long do you want to be held hostage to a friend request granted when you are reading incredibly toxic posts?
3. Do you expect Liberals to be tolerant of constant abuse? That is what most liberals are facing on social media today. The likes of that guy in the video and his sanctimonious attitude problem which was evident immediately is in fact toned down when one watches other conservative holier-than-thous put down entire groups of people.

4. Which sort of topic did you believe in your heart and mind did you expect this thread to evolve into other than devolving into yet another public show of GF/QK at each other's throats? Did you see my answer to your thread here?

5. I'd love to bully you into showing up at the Salvation Army Tiny Tim's toy drive at Coast Capri Hotel, with an armload of toys, after all, like the ribfest you said you like to see me at, it's also for a good cause.
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby Queen K » Dec 5th, 2018, 7:56 pm

rustled wrote:
Queen K wrote:


Except that it leaves out the very OPs statements so how do Right winger become bullies? Or do we need a separate thread for that one?

:135:

Maybe you could discuss the data presented in the video provided in the OP? The study and its findings.[/quote]

Rustled, did you? Did you find that study and read it? In case you didn't here it is, you're going to love Quora. I know I do.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-consisten ... servatives

I'll save you bit if time if you wish: Liberals consistently are more likely to unfriend and block someone, conservatives, not so much about political disagreements, but how the disagreement language is delivered from the conservative side.

Amazing, you insult enough people and they unfriend you. Funny how that works. Insults and putdowns become mental and emotional abuse even from friends, so after awhile, it's "Unfriend." Wow, what a shocking surprise. :up:

Do liberals use the shouting down method for their ideology? He claims yes. Go figure.
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby Queen K » Dec 5th, 2018, 8:09 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 39e20f9ff8

Of course by now we realize that the video and the data cited are far far way from Gone Fishin's thread headline.

Liberals cast a wider net on their social media, they accept more people and their different points of view. At first.
Then they start see the dismissive and insulting attitudes espoused on their hardline conservative friends social media sites.
And quite frankly, boundaries have to be drawn. It's not the political views which are different, it's how the views are made and posted. Words matter. Call people "Liberals" enough times and you get unfollowed, or unfriended, or blocked. Wow what a shocking surprise.

So "how leftist bullies are made" with a conservative laughing at, mocking and treating a young teens question about her anti-trump friends as his platform to tell her to treat them like "children" is incredibly insulting to watch.

What made that conservative a bully? And how was it done?

I see he also praises her for being on a university campus, she must be expectional right? So are liberals on the same campus.
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby rustled » Dec 5th, 2018, 9:56 pm

Queen K wrote:
rustled wrote:Maybe you could discuss the data presented in the video provided in the OP? The study and its findings.


Rustled, did you? Did you find that study and read it? In case you didn't here it is, you're going to love Quora. I know I do.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-consisten ... servatives

I'll save you bit if time if you wish: Liberals consistently are more likely to unfriend and block someone, conservatives, not so much about political disagreements, but how the disagreement language is delivered from the conservative side.

Amazing, you insult enough people and they unfriend you. Funny how that works. Insults and putdowns become mental and emotional abuse even from friends, so after awhile, it's "Unfriend." Wow, what a shocking surprise. :up:

Do liberals use the shouting down method for their ideology? He claims yes. Go figure.

No, just listened to the video and commented on that, then saw your gripe and responded to that with what I thought was a sensible suggestion. Should have known this was going to be just another tribal slugfest.

Incidentally, he mentioned Jonathan Haidt's review in the New York Times. That's here, if anyone's interested:
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/book ... haidt.html
A wee snippet:
He’s looking for wisdom. That’s what makes “The Righteous Mind” well worth reading. Politics isn’t just about ­manipulating people who disagree with you. It’s about learning from them.

Haidt seems to delight in mischief. Drawing on ethnography, evolutionary theory and experimental psychology, he sets out to trash the modern faith in reason. In Haidt’s retelling, all the fools, foils and villains of intellectual history are recast as heroes.
...
To the question many people ask about politics — Why doesn’t the other side listen to reason? — Haidt replies: We were never designed to listen to reason. When you ask people moral questions, time their responses and scan their brains, their answers and brain activation patterns indicate that they reach conclusions quickly and produce reasons later only to justify what they’ve decided. The funniest and most painful illustrations are Haidt’s transcripts of interviews about bizarre scenarios. Is it wrong to have sex with a dead chicken? How about with your sister? Is it O.K. to defecate in a urinal? If your dog dies, why not eat it? Under interrogation, most subjects in psychology experiments agree these things are wrong. But none can explain why.

The problem isn’t that people don’t reason. They do reason. But their arguments aim to support their conclusions, not yours.

Tripped over this, too:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/09/opin ... rolls.html
It’s hard to tell who started it.

Was it the populist right, reared in the meme swamps of Reddit and 4chan, who emerged blinking into the daylight of politics and set about baiting anyone who disagreed with their chosen Republican king?

Or was it liberals, cozy in their elite enclaves on the coasts, who burrowed down into self-righteousness, lecturing working-class Republicans about how they misunderstand their own interests?

Modern American political discourse can seem disjointed to the point of absurdism. But the problem isn’t just filter bubbles, echo chambers or alternative facts. It’s tone: When the loudest voices on the left talk about people on the right as either beyond the pale or dupes of their betters, it is with an air of barely concealed smugness. Right-wingers, for their part, increasingly respond with a churlish “Oh, yeah? Hold my beer,” and then double down on whatever politically incorrect sentiment brought on the disdain in the first place.

These two terrible tendencies now feed off each other, growing stronger every day: the more smugness, the more satisfying it is to poke holes in it; the more toxic the trolling, the greater the sense of moral superiority. The result: an odoriferous stew of political rhetoric that is nearly irresistible to those on the inside and confusingly abhorrent to those on the outside.


But heck, you already know all this, right? It's why you just had to start another thread where your tribe is "the good guys" and this one ended up in the bickering room.

No, you don't have to hold my beer. :130:

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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby rustled » Dec 5th, 2018, 10:11 pm

Food for thought, from the review of Haidt's book:
...in a survey of 2,000 Americans, Haidt found that self-described liberals, especially those who called themselves “very liberal,” were worse at predicting the moral judgments of moderates and conservatives than moderates and conservatives were at predicting the moral judgments of liberals. Liberals don’t understand conservative values. And they can’t recognize this failing, because they’re so convinced of their rationality, open-mindedness and enlightenment.

Haidt isn’t just scolding liberals, however. He sees the left and right as yin and yang, each contributing insights to which the other should listen. In his view, for instance, liberals can teach conservatives to recognize and constrain predation by entrenched interests. Haidt believes in the power of reason, but the reasoning has to be interactive. It has to be other people’s reason engaging yours. We’re lousy at challenging our own beliefs, but we’re good at challenging each other’s. Haidt compares us to neurons in a giant brain, capable of “producing good reasoning as an emergent property of the social system.”

Our task, then, is to organize society so that reason and intuition interact in healthy ways. Haidt’s research suggests several broad guidelines. First, we need to help citizens develop sympathetic relationships so that they seek to understand one another instead of using reason to parry opposing views. Second, we need to create time for contemplation. Research shows that two minutes of reflection on a good argument can change a person’s mind. Third, we need to break up our ideological segregation. From 1976 to 2008, the proportion of Americans living in highly partisan counties increased from 27 percent to 48 percent. The Internet exacerbates this problem by helping each user find evidence that supports his views.

Ideological segregation. Sounds kinda like tribalism, huh? I like the "yin and yang" and "neuron" examples.

Anyhoo, that's probably too kumbayah for this thread, especially now it's in the bickering room.
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby Queen K » Dec 5th, 2018, 11:08 pm

I hate beer and won't hold it for anyone. Vodka on the other hand.

So what started out as a Right Wing tribal kick out at leftists via the OP wasn't labeled so by you. Interesting.
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby rustled » Dec 6th, 2018, 11:02 am

Heck, Queen K, you'd already done a stellar job of pointing out the tribal nature of the OP, just in case anyone had missed it. No need for me to ride on your coattails, steal your thunder, etc.

The point of my posts wasn't to make sure everyone "got" that the two of you were engaging in tribalism. Although I can certainly see why you thought that was the sole point of my post.

There's actually more than one reason you won't ever have to hold my beer. One of them we have in common, how cool is that?

Anyhoo, that's enough bickering room brawling for me for this week.

:130:
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby d0nb » Dec 7th, 2018, 12:21 am

Arguably, bullies are born, not made. The natural human condition appears to be one of hate; all we seem to need is the permission of the mob; the target is optional.

At her age, it isn’t easy to contend with that mentality. To his credit, Knowles tried to provide a thoughtful answer to the youngster’s question. I wish her well.
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby Queen K » Dec 7th, 2018, 12:26 am

d0nb wrote:Arguably, bullies are born, not made. The natural human condition appears to be one of hate; all we seem to need is the permission of the mob; the target is optional.

At her age, it isn’t easy to contend with that mentality. To his credit, Knowles tried to provide a thoughtful answer to the youngster’s question. I wish her well.


Disagree with your assessment of Knowles. He is condenscending, arrogant and possibly a narcissist. I did not agree he provided any thoughtfulness to his answer to her except pander to the crowd.
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby d0nb » Dec 7th, 2018, 12:31 am

I knew I could count on you. :up: [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby Queen K » Dec 7th, 2018, 12:47 am

d0nb wrote:I knew I could count on you. :up: [icon_lol2.gif]


Yes, we're watching the same material and drawing different assessments of it. :up:
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Re: How leftists become bullies

Postby normaM » Dec 7th, 2018, 6:43 am

Removed

Babies are violent.. we mind them outta fear.
Hmm, I never considered bullies are born.. how did you come to that conclusion? Interested
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