Naturopaths are not qualified.

[Healthyskeptic]

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2686546962
CBC radio audio. The 180 show.
Check out "A former Naturopath speaks out." Former Naturopath Britt Marie Hermes reveals they are taught pseudo-science, even the 'best' schools like Bastyr.

[flamingfingers]

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health ... ut-science

It is really unfortunate that so many people are ignorant about how the body actually functions and are sucked into these frauds!

[Healthyskeptic]

I hear you, bro'.

Britt Marie Hermes' main beef with naturopathic colleges is that they don't prepare their "doctors." Real Physicians have years of seeing actual real, live patients with confirmed cases of meningitis, for example, so they know what symptoms to look for. They have hospital privileges, many of them, so they actually know what tests to order and how to analyze the resulting reports.

Naturopaths are just guessing what to do.

[flamingfingers]

I hear you, bro'.

Britt Marie Hermes' main beef with naturopathic colleges is that they don't prepare their "doctors." Real Physicians have years of seeing actual real, live patients with confirmed cases of meningitis, for example, so they know what symptoms to look for. They have hospital privileges, many of them, so they actually know what tests to order and how to analyze the resulting reports.

Naturopaths are just guessing what to do.

Not only that - they are 'prescribing' protocols that are either useless (beetroot for cancer) or potentially harmful - like IV infusions of hydrogen peroxide or hydrochloric acid - mind, these are purported so low in concentration of H2O2 or HCl that it seems the infusions are merely D5W that they make no difference anyway.

These snake-oil salesmen/women rely on the placebo effect to keep people returning to them, shedding $$$ out of their pockets!!

That poor little guy who recently died in excruciating pain from meningitis when early intervention by antibiotics could have saved him describes the dangers of ignorant parents coupled with ignorant care (from a naturopath).

[Healthyskeptic]

Court has already heard that the parents gave the boy, who had been sick for about 2½ weeks, natural remedies and homemade smoothies containing hot pepper, ginger root, horseradish and onion. Source: CBC

Poor kid.

[flamingfingers]

I also don't hold a lot of faith in chiropractors either, but they do seem a cut above the naturopaths and homeopaths.

I recall back in the day when I was working for 2 neurosurgeons here in BC that we learned a patient of one of our doctors had died of complications of hydrocephalus. Hydrocephalus is a collection of excess fluid in the ventricles of the brain which left untreated can cause increased pressure on the brain and eventually lead to death. Our neurosugeon had treated her for years with a ventriculoperitonal shunt - a catheter that drained the fluid from her ventricles in her brain into the abdominal cavity where it was absorbed by the vascular system in the abdomen. At any rate, the parents had chosen to have the child's 'intense headaches' treated by a chiropractor with 'spinal adjustments'. The child died of severe brain compression because neither the parents nor the chiropractor recognised that her shunt needed to be revised and the length adjusted and had become ineffectual by her increased growth.

If you do go to a chiropractor, DO NOT - and I repeat DO NOT allow him/her to 'adjust' your neck:

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ch ... old-child/

[flamingfingers]

Could this make it more clear?

Wished she had seen a Doc
The Canadian Press - Apr 15, 2016 / 6:23 pm | Story: 163400

Photo: Contributed
A woman accused in her toddler's death from bacterial meningitis says she wishes she had taken him to a doctor.

Collet Stephan said Friday she could not recall doing tests in March 2012 to determine whether her nearly 19-month-son Ezekiel had meningitis.

The jury has already heard that a friend who was a nurse told the Stephans that their boy might have viral meningitis and advised them to take him to a doctor.

The jury has also heard that the little boy's body was so stiff and sore that he couldn't be placed in a car seat and was placed on a mattress in the back seat of a car to be taken to a naturopath in Lethbridge the day before he stopped breathing and was rushed to hospital.

More:

http://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/163 ... seen-a-Doc

[Healthyskeptic]

I've kept up on this story in news media.

You should see how the father, David Stephan, spins it on Facebook and his Go Fund Me.

He's the victim, of course.

[Healthyskeptic]

I'd be very surprised to see them get off on this one.

[smoky500]

I know this thread is about NDs, but someone brought up chiropractic and posted a link that does not provide full disclosure so I thought I would provide one that does have an unbiased report of DCs and neck adjustment

http://www.webmd.com/stroke/news/201408 ... r-a-stroke

notice this is from Web MD and not a chiropractic source, pay close attention to the rates of stroke for other risk factors and getting your neck adjusted is pretty safe by comparison.

[Xia33]

Do your research...ask a million questions....do not have blind trust in ANY doctor...medical or natural. Do not go to anyone that pushes pharmaceuticals, nor listen to a "friend", a person in a health food store, or anyone that has hung a shingle after a 6 month course. I have a natural doctor who i consider the best....he cured a liver issue in less than 8 months that the medical doc wasn't concerned about and could have rapidly turned into what my mom died from. He does not push "natural remedies" nor whatever happens to be popular at the time....watch out for anyone who does not ask for a total history, including family members histories. Natural doctors are not all "quacks" or "snake oil salesmen" any more than medical docs are....IF you do your research!! If more people practiced/used preventative natural medicine, or if natural medicine was covered, there wouldn't be near the stress on the medical system there is....imo

[Silverstarqueen]

from above article:"WebMD Home next page Brain & Nervous System Health Center

Overland added that neck manipulation is associated with many fewer stroke deaths than other common medical treatments for neck pain.

Neck manipulation is associated with about one death per 1 million people due to cervical artery dissection, he said.

By comparison, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) cause 153 stroke deaths per 1 million people, narcotic medications cause 53 stroke deaths per 1 million people, and spinal surgery of the neck causes 500 stroke deaths per 1 million people, Overland said."

All of which seems to indicate that fatal strokes could be prevented if neck manipulation were avoided altogether. If there are 35 million people in Canada, that's a rate of 35 fatal strokes (is that per year?). May not seem like much, but if you happen to be one of those 35 people, it would be very significant.

Saying that a neck manipulation is no more risky than "daily activities", is an interesting way to put it. I had two instances of whiplash which caused loss of consciousness, and memory loss, from "daily activities". But at least I knew there was a risk involved. Do people realize there is a risk involved in the treatment they are receiving? The rate of people suffering stroke from normal "daily activities" is over 3000 per million people per year. So If neck adjustments are about the same as that, that is a lot of strokes.

So Nsaids, and narcotics kill more people than neck adjustments, good to know. Spinal surgery, like any surgery is known to carry some risk, the surgeon will tell you as much before you agree. Which is why not too many people are signing up for it. At least they were informed.
Anyone who is about to carry out some procedure, or prescribe some medication, or to undergo some procedure, or take some drug including over the counter Nsaids etc, should be fully aware of he risks. Patients should be informed by the practioner, and should not have to do days or weeks of "research" to find out those risks. Although I agree with xia33, you had better do your research because as it is doctors, pharmacists, or whoevers are not always informing people as they should be.

[caffeine]

Do your research...ask a million questions....do not have blind trust in ANY doctor...medical or natural. Do not go to anyone that pushes pharmaceuticals, nor listen to a "friend", a person in a health food store, or anyone that has hung a shingle after a 6 month course. I have a natural doctor who i consider the best....he cured a liver issue in less than 8 months that the medical doc wasn't concerned about and could have rapidly turned into what my mom died from. He does not push "natural remedies" nor whatever happens to be popular at the time....watch out for anyone who does not ask for a total history, including family members histories. Natural doctors are not all "quacks" or "snake oil salesmen" any more than medical docs are....IF you do your research!! If more people practiced/used preventative natural medicine, or if natural medicine was covered, there wouldn't be near the stress on the medical system there is....imo

I find myself in a conundrum now - I've read all the people you say not to listen to or trust - followed by your advice. I think you might be saying that I should not listen to even you, but when I think of following that advice, I'm not sure if I should listen to it. So then I think I should listen to you, and end up back where I started because according to you, I probably shouldn't listen to you.

[V-Rated]

I think whatever makes you feel good is worth its weight in gold.

I went to a naturopath 10 years ago, he did all sorts of tests, put me on a vitamin routine. At the initial time I didn't realize how good I was feeling... it was as I ran out of the vitamins I seen how bad I started feeling again... I thought maybe it was the vitamins so I went and re-stocked and again felt awesome. Placebo effect??? Who knows, but it's working for me. I am a proud *vitamin-holic* I like to joke. It is my money and there are millions of others things one could spend their money on to make themselves feel good.

About 6 years later I moved and tried a different naturopath and he did remind me of the typical snake oil seller. He wanted to inject me with things, did not listen to a word I said and just went on his own agenda. One and only one visit was enough to tell me to run fast away.

So like any doctor, dentist, banker, advisor... if you get a bad feeling, run. But if something makes you feel good and it is safe, nothing wrong with it.
There are tons of documentaries out there squashing the claims of naturopaths and vitamins, my body is my best source of information for me.

~V~

[Xia33]

"I find myself in a conundrum now - I've read all the people you say not to listen to or trust - followed by your advice. I think you might be saying that I should not listen to even you, but when I think of following that advice, I'm not sure if I should listen to it. So then I think I should listen to you, and end up back where I started because according to you, I probably shouldn't listen to you."


far too much caffeine? ..lol