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Vaccinations

Health, well-being, medicine, aging.

Re: Vaccinations

Postby necclest » Jun 10th, 2017, 10:48 am

If you think that vaccinations have saved lives and do save lives & I think that vaccinations have taken lives and continue to take lives - Who is right?
I would go towards the option that has clinical significance and has been scientifically proven to save lives? The only proof you have shown me is equivalent to fake news in the science community.

Listen, i understand being skeptical of those in power, especially big pharma, but you need to realize the flaws in your argument (if you even want to call it that?). History has demonstrated that disease outbreaks cost the government and its citizens extensive amount of money, not to mention the burden it puts on the workforce. Due to this, they provide a vaccine which you only have to take once (maybe twice) to rid yourself forever of that disease. How is that even profitable for vaccination/drug companies? They already make millions off of pills that people have to take daily to manage symptoms of disease, so wouldn't that mean that vaccines are the opposite? Not only that, vaccines are provided to families at no extra cost because they see that the risk of disease outbreak is far to costly in the long term. This is why countries like Italy are now wanting to make it mandatory.

The amount of time and money that goes into the development of a drug or vaccine is actually quite suprising. Research scientists might spend their whole career trying to develop a drug/vaccine and not see a profit in their lifetime. The extent most research companies have to go to finally market drugs to the public/doctors etc is for our own safety. See, scientists are like you and me. They are not working together with the government to take advantage of your average schmuck. Most people get into the development of drugs because they want to do good and protect people from disease.

I am starting to realize you will choose to believe what you want to believe. I cant change your opinion. Hell, I can't even make you realize that what i have told you is a FACT and not an opinion. Just please take the time to look at the other side. Lay off the wacky anti-vaccine videos and maybe look at an article or video that presents the scientific evidence. Sometimes you have to see the word outside your own bias. Sure, its not as flashy and dramatic as believing that the government is always trying to take advantage of us, but sometimes you have to trust things that you might not understand.
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Re: Vaccinations

Postby BelieveNothing » Jun 10th, 2017, 3:23 pm

necclest wrote:
If you think that vaccinations have saved lives and do save lives & I think that vaccinations have taken lives and continue to take lives - Who is right?
I would go towards the option that has clinical significance and has been scientifically proven to save lives? The only proof you have shown me is equivalent to fake news in the science community.

Listen, i understand being skeptical of those in power, especially big pharma, but you need to realize the flaws in your argument (if you even want to call it that?). History has demonstrated that disease outbreaks cost the government and its citizens extensive amount of money, not to mention the burden it puts on the workforce. Due to this, they provide a vaccine which you only have to take once (maybe twice) to rid yourself forever of that disease. How is that even profitable for vaccination/drug companies? They already make millions off of pills that people have to take daily to manage symptoms of disease, so wouldn't that mean that vaccines are the opposite? Not only that, vaccines are provided to families at no extra cost because they see that the risk of disease outbreak is far to costly in the long term. This is why countries like Italy are now wanting to make it mandatory.

The amount of time and money that goes into the development of a drug or vaccine is actually quite suprising. Research scientists might spend their whole career trying to develop a drug/vaccine and not see a profit in their lifetime. The extent most research companies have to go to finally market drugs to the public/doctors etc is for our own safety. See, scientists are like you and me. They are not working together with the government to take advantage of your average schmuck. Most people get into the development of drugs because they want to do good and protect people from disease.

I am starting to realize you will choose to believe what you want to believe. I cant change your opinion. Hell, I can't even make you realize that what i have told you is a FACT and not an opinion. Just please take the time to look at the other side. Lay off the wacky anti-vaccine videos and maybe look at an article or video that presents the scientific evidence. Sometimes you have to see the word outside your own bias. Sure, its not as flashy and dramatic as believing that the government is always trying to take advantage of us, but sometimes you have to trust things that you might not understand.


You didnt mention the doctor's "kickbacks" from Pharmacutical companies
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Re: Vaccinations

Postby BelieveNothing » Jun 10th, 2017, 3:39 pm

I was born with the spiritual gift of discernment.

I realize that makes me a joke, to people like yourself.

To me, "science" hinders revelation of "Truth" not the other way around - which is apparently where your Faith lies - as does the majority of human beings.

You derive your sense of safety and security from "science"

I derive my sense of safety and security from The Creator.

I haven't interest is altering the Faith of others, if vaccines work for you and your family - so be it.

Myself, I see differently.

I have family members who give their children the scheduel of vaccines as well as a member of the family who is in the nursing community - and is required to take the yearly influenza vaccine.

I do not like that this is the case, however I respect their path and their choice.

I DO NOT stand behind "mandatory vaccinations" and I will continue to speak out.

God bless you & yours, necclest
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Re: Vaccinations

Postby What_the » Jun 11th, 2017, 10:10 am

believe nothing wrote:You derive your sense of safety and security from "science"

Interesting perspective. Because we all need that sense.

BN wrote:I derive my sense of safety and security from The Creator.

Since I really don't think there are deities, more advanced life sure, but for me safety and security, feels better when I can also review the evidence and so can my peers .
Would so rather be over educated that a knuckle dragging Neanderthal bereft of critical thought and imagination. Although in the case of Neanderthals, that's quite the insult.

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Re: Vaccinations

Postby BelieveNothing » Jun 11th, 2017, 6:24 pm

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Re: Vaccinations

Postby Fancy » Jun 12th, 2017, 5:17 am

You probably want this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=60561&p=2194246#p2194246

This is 2017 not 1971.
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Re: Vaccinations

Postby Jonrox » Jun 12th, 2017, 1:03 pm

How about simple counting? I'm sure you can tell 37 is a much lower number than 350,000... no science involved... just counting.

Polio does still exist, although polio cases have decreased by over 99% since 1988, from an estimated more than 350 000 cases to 37 reported cases in 2016. This reduction is the result of the global effort to eradicate the disease. Today, only 3 countries in the world have never stopped transmission of polio (Pakistan, Afghanistan and Nigeria).

Despite the progress achieved since 1988, as long as a single child remains infected with poliovirus, children in all countries are at risk of contracting the disease. The poliovirus can easily be imported into a polio-free country and can spread rapidly amongst unimmunized populations. Failure to eradicate polio could result in as many as 200 000 new cases every year, within 10 years, all over the world.

There is no cure for polio, it can only be prevented. Polio vaccine, given multiple times, can protect a child for life.
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Re: Vaccinations

Postby the truth » Aug 13th, 2017, 7:00 pm

https://healthcareinamerica.us/did-chin ... 50be5b9122 been saying it forever big pharma is the devil
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell

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Re: Vaccinations

Postby Silverstarqueen » Aug 24th, 2017, 7:00 am

Flu shot rarely actually works (i.e. saves lives). But we already knew that.

http://ewao.com/2017/08/16/johns-hopkin ... -vaccines/
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Re: Vaccinations

Postby the truth » Aug 24th, 2017, 10:35 am

Silverstarqueen wrote:Flu shot rarely actually works (i.e. saves lives). But we already knew that.

http://ewao.com/2017/08/16/johns-hopkin ... -vaccines/


yup nothing new here, hope someone like -- johns hopkins=== confirming the flu shot does not work and infact harm people might make some people finally wake up and smell the coffee
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
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Re: Vaccinations

Postby Fancy » Aug 24th, 2017, 10:50 am

the truth wrote:yup nothing new here, hope someone like -- johns hopkins=== confirming the flu shot does not work and infact harm people might make some people finally wake up and smell the coffee


Funny how the actual report wasn't in it and it wasn't someone like "johns hopkins". Sounds like you still haven't read up on the actual author and he's been mentioned in several threads.

First, as Snopes.com has already pointed out, Doshi is not a virologist or an epidemiologist, but rather an anthropologist who studies comparative effectiveness research. He never conducted influenza research at Hopkins. (He’s now an Assistant Professor at the University of Maryland’s School of Pharmacy.) Second, Doshi’s 2013 article was an opinion piece (a “feature”), not an original research article, and it did not report any new findings. Third, it is highly misleading to suggest (as the anti-vax article’s title does) that Doshi somehow represents Johns Hopkins University. At Johns Hopkins Hospital, the flu vaccine is required of all personnel who have contact with patients, as a good-practices effort to minimize the risk that a patient will catch the flu from a caregiver.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalz ... 63757178a7
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Re: Vaccinations

Postby Silverstarqueen » Aug 24th, 2017, 2:29 pm

Here is an actual report of a study .
Efficacy and effectiveness of influenza vaccines: a systematic review and meta-analysis.
Osterholm MT1, Kelley NS, Sommer A, Belongia EA.
Author information
Erratum in
Lancet Infect Dis. 2012 Sep;12(9):655.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
No published meta-analyses have assessed efficacy and effectiveness of licensed influenza vaccines in the USA with sensitive and highly specific diagnostic tests to confirm influenza.

METHODS:
We searched Medline for randomised controlled trials assessing a relative reduction in influenza risk of all circulating influenza viruses during individual seasons after vaccination (efficacy) and observational studies meeting inclusion criteria (effectiveness). Eligible articles were published between Jan 1, 1967, and Feb 15, 2011, and used RT-PCR or culture for confirmation of influenza. We excluded some studies on the basis of study design and vaccine characteristics. We estimated random-effects pooled efficacy for trivalent inactivated vaccine (TIV) and live attenuated influenza vaccine (LAIV) when data were available for statistical analysis (eg, at least three studies that assessed comparable age groups).

FINDINGS:
We screened 5707 articles and identified 31 eligible studies (17 randomised controlled trials and 14 observational studies). Efficacy of TIV was shown in eight (67%) of the 12 seasons analysed in ten randomised controlled trials (pooled efficacy 59% [95% CI 51-67] in adults aged 18-65 years). No such trials met inclusion criteria for children aged 2-17 years or adults aged 65 years or older. Efficacy of LAIV was shown in nine (75%) of the 12 seasons analysed in ten randomised controlled trials (pooled efficacy 83% [69-91]) in children aged 6 months to 7 years. No such trials met inclusion criteria for children aged 8-17 years. Vaccine effectiveness was variable for seasonal influenza: six (35%) of 17 analyses in nine studies showed significant protection against medically attended influenza in the outpatient or inpatient setting. Median monovalent pandemic H1N1 vaccine effectiveness in five observational studies was 69% (range 60-93).

INTERPRETATION:
Influenza vaccines can provide moderate protection against virologically confirmed influenza, but such protection is greatly reduced or absent in some seasons. Evidence for protection in adults aged 65 years or older is lacking. LAIVs consistently show highest efficacy in young children (aged 6 months to 7 years). New vaccines with improved clinical efficacy and effectiveness are needed to further reduce influenza-related morbidity and mortality.

FUNDING:
Alfred P Sloan Foundation.
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Re: Vaccinations

Postby the truth » Aug 24th, 2017, 2:31 pm

flu shots for the elderly is one of the biggest scams of all time sad but true
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
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Re: Vaccinations

Postby Fancy » Aug 24th, 2017, 2:59 pm

Not according to health authorities - every little bit of protection helps.
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Re: Vaccinations

Postby the truth » Aug 24th, 2017, 3:02 pm

"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
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