Teacher bargaining

[KGT]

removed

[pbear]

removed.

[Urbane]

Teachers upset over missing day of pay
By Jennifer Stahn
October 17, 2014

KAMLOOPS - Kamloops teachers are among the minority in the province not getting paid for the day they spent preparing their classrooms for the first day of school.

Kamloops Thompson Teachers Association President David Komljenovic says teachers showed good faith by showing up on the Friday before school was set to start, as well as evenings and weekends following the prolonged teacher strike that delayed the start of school by nearly three weeks, and the lack of support from the board is concerning.

“It’s a sign of disrespect,” Komljenovic says. “They won’t pay… or put pressure on the provincial government to pay.”

The teachers association first spoke with human resources about the issue, and then the labour liaison. With no answer forthcoming they asked to speak to the board but that request was denied this week as well.

Komljenovic says it goes against their rights while Board Chair Denise Harper says allowing them to speak would go against the agreement because it’s dealing with salary issues.

“They’re asking for money… I saw it as meeting the criteria,” Harper says. “It was no intention to be unfair, there’s no argument we’d love to pay the teachers. I don’t want anyone to think we wouldn’t like to pay the teachers but we can only do that if the minister releases another $300,000 plus. We don’t have the capacity, we don’t have the money.”

Harper says the district paid teachers according to the collective agreement but has sent a letter to the ministry asking for the extra money to pay for the additional day. The Kamloops district is one of 18 boards being represented by the B.C. School Trustees Association in the matter. Collective agreements vary from board to board which has caused a discrepancy in how many days teachers have been paid for this year.

Komljenovic says they do not accept the decision and notes it is outside of the collective agreement. He says it is frustrating that after more than five years with an agreement in place to speak at board meetings they are again being rejected their right to speak.

“Teachers in other districts were paid, and we were not. This is a return to work agreement, it’s outside of collective bargaining,” he says, adding his frustration with not being allowed to speak. “Our district is one of few that tries to stifle ability of employee groups to speak. I’m not going to say we’re going to initiate arbitration, but it’s open to us.”

Komljenovic says even more frustrating is the fact they haven’t even been invited to discuss the matter behind closed doors, which makes him question the sincerity of the board.

“They haven’t invited us to discuss at an in-camera meeting either,” he says. “It’s about fairness. There’s an election coming up, the trustees can’t hide.”

In the meantime teachers and supporters plan to rally at the school board office on Monday at 6:30 p.m. Komljenovic says the rally will be quiet and peaceful and there are also plan to attend the meeting immediately afterwards to add even more pressure on the board. The pressure will continue as we head into the November elections as well, with the association planning an all-candidates meeting early next month.

To contact a reporter for this story, email Jennifer Stahn at [email protected] or call 250-819-3723. To contact an editor, email [email protected] or call 250-718-2724.

I understand that the teachers want more money but if in fact the district in Kamloops has complied with the collective agreement then I fail to see how the teachers have a case. The BCTF has come out against standardizing the language and so different districts will have different policies. You can't fight standardized language and then turn around and demand standardized language be used to override the CA. Time to move on . . .

[KGT]

I understand that the teachers want more money but if in fact the district in Kamloops has complied with the collective agreement then I fail to see how the teachers have a case. The BCTF has come out against standardizing the language and so different districts will have different policies. You can't fight standardized language and then turn around and demand standardized language be used to override the CA. Time to move on . . .

Only 15 districts have refused to pay. SD23 has grieved it. Now we wait for arbitration. Quite a few districts with the SAME LANGUAGE as Kelowna, made the decision to pay us for the day anyway, in keeping with the spirit of the agreement, and in keeping with the language in the Return to Work Agreement.

In case you missed it, here's the RTWA language.

[Urbane]

Here is an excerpt from the BCPSEA's response:

October 6, 2014
Teachers’ Pay for September 2014
September 19 was designated by BCPSEA and the BC Teachers’ Federation (BCTF), under the terms of
the agreed-to Return to Work Plan, as the first day back to work for the vast majority of teachers
following their strike, even though students did not return to class until Monday, September 22.
The local teachers’ union in School District No. 43 (Coquitlam) has taken the public position that
teachers in the Coquitlam School District were not paid for the work day on September 19.
The position taken by the union, and reported by various media, is incorrect. Teachers in the Coquitlam
School District were paid for all the days worked in September, including September 19, in accordance
with their local collective agreement language.
When a teacher does not work a full month for any reason, there is collective agreement language —
agreed-to by both the school district and the union — that specifically sets out how the teacher is paid.
This collective agreement language varies throughout the province’s 60 public school districts — there is
no standard language covering all 60 school districts.

There you have it. There is no standard language and that's what the BCTF wanted - no standard language. BCPSEA says that teachers were in fact paid for the Friday but it's the way the calculation is done in each district that determines the total amount of salary paid. We'll see how the grievance turns out but it certainly appears not to be as simple as you suggest.

[KGT]

Here is an excerpt from the BCPSEA's response:

There you have it. There is no standard language and that's what the BCTF wanted - no standard language. BCPSEA says that teachers were in fact paid for the Friday but it's the way the calculation is done in each district that determines the total amount of salary paid. We'll see how the grievance turns out but it certainly appears not to be as simple as you suggest.

No good faith from SD23. Watch what happens next time they need me to go the extra mile. Not gonna happen.

[Urbane]

No good faith from SD23. Watch what happens next time they need me to go the extra mile. Not gonna happen.

What if the grievance fails and it turns out that the district IS complying with the collective agreement? Will you be angry at the district for complying with the CA? By the way, you won't go the extra mile for your students as a way of punishing SD 23?? No comment.

[KGT]

What if the grievance fails and it turns out that the district IS complying with the collective agreement? Will you be angry at the district for complying with the CA? By the way, you won't go the extra mile for your students as a way of punishing SD 23?? No comment.

Yes I will still be angry. Other districts paid for that day of work even tho they had the same CA language.

I didn't say wouldn't go the extra mile for my students.

[Urbane]

Yes I will still be angry. Other districts paid for that day of work even tho they had the same CA language.

I didn't say wouldn't go the extra mile for my students.

So your point is "just give me the money" regardless of what it says in the contract. Owed legally or not you just want it regardless of whose money that is and regardless of where else that money could go - students for example! That's very very interesting given the statements made by you in the past about so-called "contract stripping" et al. Now all of a sudden the contract is just some sort of guideline . . . mind-boggling that is! Also, I totally disagree with your comment about not going the extra mile if you don't get your way on this but I'll just leave it at that.

[omisimaw]

yes and so the childishness continues....
whine whine
mom you have to give it to me because john down the streets mom gave it to him and so did sandra's mom and well every other kid in the class so because they have it so should I....
LOL
What part of do not care what you want, legally it is not yours to have and just because some other districts gave in does not mean this one has to.
I think SD23 is right in refusing this and if you are angry then at least be angry at the right source for you, the BCTF
They are your representatives that gave the SD the right to this in an agreed upon Letter of Understanding.
Don't like the results, which you obviously never even know that this was possible, then take it up with your union.
See if they can renegotiate and get it retro active but don't hold your breath
And just because SD X Y or Z saw fit to turn a blind eye does not give you any grounds for a grievance
so suck it up!

[Urbane]

Regardless of the how the grievance re September pay turns out some teachers will continue to be bitter. If the arbitrator awards more salary to SD 23 teachers for September there will be those who will be upset because a grievance was necessary. If the arbitrator rules that the district is in fact adhering to the contract there will be those who are angry at the district for adhering to the contract. Teachers now have a collective agreement that doesn't expire for five more years and we've heard about the prospect of labour peace in our schools but I guess the bitterness and general feeling that they're hard done by is difficult for some teachers to get beyond. Here's hoping that they do though because it will be better for them and better for their students.

More on this issue:

Victoria, Saanich teachers want to be paid for first post-strike day
JEFF BELL / TIMES COLONIST
OCTOBER 20, 2014

Teachers’ groups in the Greater Victoria and Saanich school districts say their members have not been paid for the day after a contract was ratified to end teachers’ provincewide strike.

The majority of other teachers in the 60 school districts across the province have been paid for Sept. 19, said Jason Gammon, Greater Victoria Teachers’ Association first vice-president. He said it was a Friday that many teachers used to prepare their classrooms for the first full post-strike week of school Sept. 22-26.

On top of that, many teachers spent unpaid time during the weekend of Sept. 20-21 making preparations for the week ahead, Gammon said.

“Teachers were dedicated. They wanted to be back in class.”

The main stumbling block for payment is that districts’ contract language for calculating how teachers are paid varies around the province, he said. In Greater Victoria and Saanich, pay is determined by subtracting the number of days not worked from 20, which is the monthly average.

“We’ve dealt with this before and done the same thing,” said Greater Victoria district superintendent Sherri Bell. “This has nothing to do with the Sept. 19 prep day. This has to do with applying the collective-agreement language.

“We don’t have a choice. We can’t pick and choose when we follow the collective agreement and when we don’t.”

Bell said the Ministry of Education made it clear that each district should follow its own contract language when dealing with post-strike matters. There was no funding from the ministry to do something outside the contract, she said.

Saanich Teachers’ Association president Mark Skanks said he has been talking to district officials about the non-payment.

“I’ve acknowledged to Saanich, ‘I know you’re doing the contract correctly,’ but I think I have a lot of members that are upset because, of course, they know other teachers in other locals who have been paid for eight days [in September] as opposed to seven.”

Greater Victoria and Saanich are among about a dozen districts where teachers are still hoping to be paid. “Other districts that have similar language to Victoria have decided to pay,” Gammon said. “It’s kind of a goodwill gesture. We came off a pretty brutal strike and that’s how you want to start things off?”

Teresa Rezansoff, president of the B.C. School Trustees Association, called for all teachers to receive pay for Sept. 19.

“BCSTA strongly encourages government to consider the relatively small cost of honouring its commitment against the ill will and negative impact of not funding that one day,” she said in a letter to Education Minister Peter Fassbender and Finance Minister Mike de Jong.

Teachers earning at the top of the pay scale lost $10,000 to $12,000 before taxes during the strike, and another unpaid day is hard to take, Gammon said. The pay for one day ranges considerably, he said, starting at around $250.

“We’ve said to our teachers: ‘This is an important issue’,” said Gammon, who was scheduled to speak about teachers’ concerns at Monday night’s Greater Victoria school board meeting.

Fassbender said the settlement negotiated with teachers made it clear teachers were to be paid starting Sept. 19. “The challenge, and the Victoria district has said this, is the individual collective agreements and the wording of them,” he said. “So it is a local issue and I know school districts are working on them.”

— With files from Katie DeRosa

- See more at: http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local ... 0ip8g.dpuf

So there you go. Even the president of the Saanich Teachers' Association acknowledges that his district is adhering to the contract but he wants officials to ignore the contract language and give teachers more money anyway. The BCTF blocked attempts to standardize the language and now individual locals are mad at school districts because they're not retroactively standardizing the language. I do understand the frustration but teachers who are unhappy should be asking their local and the BCTF why the language was never standardized.

[KGT]

So there you go, Urbane. (Funny how you always pick and choose what to highlight).

“I’ve acknowledged to Saanich, ‘I know you’re doing the contract correctly,’ but I think I have a lot of members that are upset because, of course, they know other teachers in other locals who have been paid for eight days [in September] as opposed to seven.”

Other locals with the same language as SD23 chose to honour the Return to Work Agreement and pay for Sept. 19th.

[KGT]

And then there's this.

[Urbane]

Other locals with the same language as SD23 chose to honour the Return to Work Agreement and pay for Sept. 19th.

Why have local school boards at all if you want them all to do the same thing? The same thing if it's what you want of course. I have no problem with what North Vancouver's board has done but I would have had no problem if they had adhered to the contract. Adhering to the contract would be my first choice but I understand why they did what they did. Anyway, I find it incredibly hypocritical for you to come on here and demand that our school board NOT adhere to the collective agreement in order to pay you extra money. You've said you'd be angry even if the arbitrator rules that the district is in compliance with the CA. After all you've said about "contract stripping" and there not being enough money for students it's truly incredible that you'd be angry at our board for complying with the CA. Very disappointing KGT!

[The Green Barbarian]

LOL - "we understand that teachers went for months without pay". Do they not understand that they "chose" to go for those months without pay? And do they understand that Iker and his gang of thugs forced children to go for months without school? And parents to go for months with juggling schedules and searching for childcare? These North Vancouver bozos are just completely and utterly clueless.