A saw and a man

[fluffy]

...i looked at all the others and saw good and bad in all...

My point is that as obvious as something may seem to you, to someone else it can be the complete opposite.

My thoughts as well. A belief that any one single point of view can give you, or has given you, all your answers puts you at risk of missing out on a lot of other potential sources. Like science, spiritual beliefs are based on the "best theory so far", and should not be clung to in the face of a better theory.

[Graham Adder]

A belief that any one single point of view can give you, or has given you, all your answers puts you at risk of missing out on a lot of other potential sources. Like science, spiritual beliefs are based on the "best theory so far", and should not be clung to in the face of a better theory.

Pretty much the only "truth" we can determine to be true.
Not to say there isn't another truth out there, but the fact remains that we just cannot say anything for certain regarding a god or not.
What we can say for certain is that when we die, we become worm food.
We all do. This we know.
Another truth we know for certain is that we all possess energy. We flow with it. And we have learned through proven, measurable means that energy changes form, but never goes away.
So my determination is that when we die, our energy leaves our now dead body, for the most part (it takes energy to rot) and moves on to be a part of, become, or energize something else within our sphere we all share.
So until someone can show me proof of anything beyond the scope of my own experiences and truths, the rest to me is just filler for people that have higher expectations than I do.
I expect to become worm food.
I expect my energy to leave my body when I die, and move along to some other purpose beyond my physical body.

I can accept that some answers are simply beyond my ability to comprehend. I can also accept that some things are the way they are, because they need to be that way for things to be as they are...and that's all I need to know.
I'm thinking alpine meadows.
People often reference them as only possible with an ultimate being putting them there for us to see as beauty.
Poppycock! They are the way they are, so that an entire ecosystem can flourish from their bounty.
The fact that it is so beautiful is completely our own take...nothing more.

So, until I am witness to fact based material to change my understanding and perception, I'll not follow the teachings of any other as I have done in the past.
It's just not worth being lied to by my standards.

[kibbs]

So my determination is that when we die, our energy leaves our now dead body, for the most part (it takes energy to rot) and moves on to be a part of, become, or energize something else within our sphere we all share

This was my belief for a long time and felt that That its a mystery and there is nothing to be done on earth on a spiritual level.Then the atheists starting calling everyone who believed in any kind of eternal existence fools.I felt it highly conflicted with my hope as free energy being I could create any reality I wished. I've realized now that I am a free energy being and my body is a tool to create my own reality already.I now pity atheist who just don't get it even though they have it.

[fluffy]

Afterlife ? God ? I tend to lump these unsolvables together under the "life's mysteries" category, fun to ponder but not necessarily a huge issue when it comes to day-to-day life and efforts to be at peace with myself and others.

[kibbs]

Afterlife ? God ? I tend to lump these unsolvables together under the "life's mysteries" category, fun to ponder but not necessarily a huge issue when it comes to day-to-day life and efforts to be at peace with myself and others.

If you believe in eternal life than you are ,always and what we do here matters little other than those connections beyond the material.Family and friends will be all that is left when our bodies recycle.I find it more and more important to maintain these connections .

[fluffy]

I'm not against the concept of an afterlife, I try to keep an open mind in the absence of factual information and it's a nice thought actually, but at the moment it's "out there" with life's other mysteries. We are beings of energy, the physical body can be looked at as a vessel for the soul as it were, but the question of whether the soul survives when no longer supported by the body still begs an answer. It is believed (so far) that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only its form changes. Now whether the change (?) that takes place upon our death allows for some retention of our individual identity has yet to be proven beyond anecdotal "ghost stories", but there is no shortage of those and that could be reason enough to keep ones options open.

[kibbs]

whether the change (?) that takes place upon our death allows for some retention of our individual identity has yet to be proven beyond anecdotal "ghost stories", but there is no shortage of those and that could be reason enough to keep ones options open

Religion and ghost hunters can really make you think a spiritual realm is a joke .Fairy tales for small minds.Maybe ive just convinced myself my life is a continuance but i just feel that way.It makes being good and doing good have purpose.accepting it makes life easier.and i feel more prepared for whats next .If it turns out to be nothing I've lost nothing.

[janalta]

Religion and ghost hunters can really make you think a spiritual realm is a joke .Fairy tales for small minds.Maybe ive just convinced myself my life is a continuance but i just feel that way.It makes being good and doing good have purpose.accepting it makes life easier.and i feel more prepared for whats next .If it turns out to be nothing I've lost nothing.

Why does being good and doing good need to be driven by the hope for an easier time in another realm?

Why can't our 'purpose' be the here and now?
Why do we need the hope of some sort of eternal life to be the best we can in this one we've been given?
Why prepare for what may or may not be next?
Why not just concentrate on making a difference in the world you occupy today?
It kind of needs more people to do good right now.

[underscore]

Religion and ghost hunters can really make you think a spiritual realm is a joke .Fairy tales for small minds.Maybe ive just convinced myself my life is a continuance but i just feel that way.It makes being good and doing good have purpose.accepting it makes life easier.and i feel more prepared for whats next .If it turns out to be nothing I've lost nothing.

1) Are you saying that you're only a good person because you believe in some form of afterlife?

2) As a whole we are ignorant about what happens after death, and I think that's where religion comes in. Most people are scared of the unknown, and religion gives answers to many of these scary questions. That's mainly why I don't believe in any religion, I don't trust these sources of the answers to peoples fears.

[Glacier]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali has an interesting Canadian lecture talking about belief in the hereafter. Believing in the hereafter is not a problem per se, but it is if it represents all your life's investments.

[Graham Adder]

Believing in the hereafter is not a problem per se, but it is if it represents all your life's investments.

I would say!
Purple juice anyone?

I can only imagine it to be a rare thing to find anyone that has devoted so much to their unfounded belief system and not come out of it a little "off".

[Hmmm]

I would say!
Purple juice anyone?

I can only imagine it to be a rare thing to find anyone that has devoted so much to their unfounded belief system and not come out of it a little "off".

Although I do not like religion for the most part, you sound like you've spent most of the time on the outside looking in and taking soundbites of it and then forming your opinions. Either that or Hollywood taught you.

Its like you heard every bad story and rumor and ran with it. I could be wrong but its a guess. BTW, your comments of late have been much more respectful.

[kibbs]

1) Are you saying that you're only a good person because you believe in some form of afterlife?

No I've always tried to be good not always succeeding.But if you believe you will have to live with whatever you do for eternity ,it makes doing good more rewarding and the thought of being bad unacceptable.It also makes waiting to find out while doing nothing seem pointless.I use to be unsure if my help was wanted or needed.I am now without doubt .

[kibbs]

2) As a whole we are ignorant about what happens after death, and I think that's where religion comes in. Most people are scared of the unknown, and religion gives answers to many of these scary questions. That's mainly why I don't believe in any religion, I don't trust these sources of the answers to peoples fears.

whatever floats your boat.i think some fear if they get close to a church it will brain wash them. Absolutely it comforts those who fear death.It also comforts people when people die and they are full of grief .That's a tough job when people die bein a preacher.the part i like best of it all is the music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQl7qTuWdhs

[Graham Adder]

...you sound like you've spent most of the time on the outside looking in and taking soundbites of it and then forming your opinions. Either that or Hollywood taught you.

Its like you heard every bad story and rumor and ran with it. I could be wrong but its a guess. BTW, your comments of late have been much more respectful.

I was born and raised a "good" catholic boy.
I spent my first 14 years playing sheep and doing things "by the book".
I've got six hundred and sixty six pounds of wax candles to show what a respectable god fearing lad I was. I've had so many banners, book marks and signed bibles I had to have a bonfire just to clear room for my voodoo altar.
I left "my" church and tried others, but found them all to be the same.
Businessmen, politicians and pedophiles shaking sticky hands with thy neighbor who's wife or kids were yesterday's targets.
It's social media before social media.

My experiences with church and religion have been true, honest and real.
I have not conjured a judgement by the words of any other than myself.
I'm leading my own way.