Downtown Timmy's

[0gopogo]

Wow, what a dumb comment.
Summerland already has a Tim Hortons. The reason behind your post is rather obvious-to point out the faults in Summerland.
Get a life, dude.

[bipdl]

OMG! Summerland already has a Timmy's?!!! Gee, when did that happen?

The reason behind your post is rather obvious-to point out the faults in Summerland.

You must either be one of those building's owners, or, you prefer to not see the world as it actually is (aka; denial).

Sorry if the truth hurts, dude, but it sure doesn't look very respectable when you walk into businesses and see buckets on floors and shelves, catching water dripping from ripped open ceilings because landlords couldn't be bothered to properly maintain their revenue properties. The fact that it's a common sight in Summerland stores just happens to be a matter of observation... no "life" necessary!

No wonder Timmy's built their own new building for their restaurant... they have professional standards and an image of respectability to uphold, which is at odds with Summerland's commercial building stock's (ahem) standards.

In any event, it appears Timmy's vacated their Penticton Main Street location for reasons other than a negligent landlord, which was a notion raised by an earlier poster.

[fluffy]

In any event, it appears Timmy's vacated their Penticton Main Street location for reasons other than a negligent landlord, which was a notion raised by an earlier poster.

Have you heard something bipdl? It is a pretty lucrative zone for a coffee shop being right in the heart of Penticton's "commerce" sector so to speak, but there is no shortage of coffee shops there already. Is it possible that the Timmie's brand is having a tough time drawing the suit-and-tie set away from the more upscale ventures?

[ToddT]

Commerce sector?
I'd be curious if it was possible to see the revenue dollars from Jermyn Ave North vs Jermyn Ave South.
I would suggest most of Pentictonite's dollars go to either the big box stores or the mall. I spend next to nothing downtown, and haven't in years. Not one good reason too. The only time I ever used that Tim Horton's was during parades.

To suggest Penticton even has a "downtown" is kind of comical considering you can drive from one lake to the other in ten minutes. With the influx of seniors and closure of nightclubs etc... why even have a "downtown?" Isn't that where all the kids hang out?

[bipdl]

I'm not aware of anything more about the move other than what's been posted here, Fluffy.

Sadly, I have to concur somewhat with ToddT's assessment about Penticton's downtown strip.

My experience with various downtown merchants over the years has run a range to include seeing frightfully dreadful overpricing, shortsighted "business" acumen, lackadaisical service occasionally extending into utter professional incompetence, indifference towards customer satisfaction, arrogance, broken promises, and to being within earshot of a casual staff conversation salty enough to make a seasoned sailor blush.

I'm no fan of big box stores, but at least they don't tolerate the sorts of shenanigans I've encountered within the "local" merchant community.

I've often realized of Penticton commerce that: Just because you're in business, doesn't make you a "businessman". I think the chickens are coming home to roost now that times are getting leaner for all us customers.

IMHO, the downtown business association (or whatever it's called) would do our entire community a service by offering its members some (low-priced if not mandatory) night courses on "How To Be A Better Businessperson - Getting Customers Into Your Store And Keep Them Wanting To Come Back".

Otherwise, the downtown is doomed to seeing even more For Lease signs then already exist, and cash cow drawing cards like Tim Horton's will simple stay on major artery intersections, doling coffees out drive-through windows.

[fluffy]

Commerce sector?

I was thinking more of the concentration of offices and such in that area with city hall, the court house, buncha banks and stuff. Not so much the shopping aspect although I think we're seeing a transition of sorts as destination "boutique" shops take over from the more mundane groceries-and-underwear shoppers. I look at the way some of the neighbourhoods in Vancouver have evolved. Some of the hotter new shopping/tourist areas had their roots in earthier beginnings. 1st & Commercial, Gastown, Mt. Pleasant, all these places are coming into their own. It will take longer for a town Penticton's size, and a stronger economy, but I wouldn't rule out downtown just yet. I think we'll see more of the commercial/residential mix as things pick up.

[bipdl]

Interesting observations, Flufster. And, count me among those who like the trend you describe. I think it's cool. Too bad such revitalization stopped following the "Colourful Front Street" makeover. It was a bit of a rough mix, what with a tire shop and a strip bar grandfathered into the soup, but overall the effect was, and remains, pretty nice.

By extension, I truly hope someone does something tastefully urbane, holistic, and pedestrian friendly with the lands along both sides of Penticton Creek between the bus station and the bridge by the traffic circle at the base of Vancouver Hill. Having a "natural" water feature to work around lends itself to all sorts of public friendly possibilities and aesthetic promise. Another concrete tower of high-priced apartments at this location would just spoil the obvious potential to develop a culturally prize worthy asset.

Heck, even Timmy might move in.

[fluffy]

There's some interesting little nooks and crannies showing up around Front Street with "hidden" residences and little courtyards here and there. That's the sort of thing that can really turn an urban area into something special, a place I could get used to living in really. A couple of challenges to overcome that aren't huge but necessary in my mind would be protected parking and a little outdoor green space like a courtyard or deck big enough for a container garden.

[ToddT]

I agree. Front St. actually has some potential, but I really do think that's it. Main St. is so badly in need of renovations from the lake to Pen Hi that it will take years to be at the level Front St. already is. While I think Tim Horton's in the old Slack's location would do well and many people would frequent it, I believe it would severely hurt the "culture" that exists on Front St.
There is a lot where a hotel burned down on Main St, with some creative planning a Tim Horton's with a drive thru would do well at. That might spurn some other business around it to pick up their feet and clean up a little bit.

[fluffy]

I'm no real estate agent or developer but somehow I think both those locations would come at a cost prohibitive for something as small scale as a Timmies.

[sammym]

I'm no real estate agent or developer but somehow I think both those locations would come at a cost prohibitive for something as small scale as a Timmies.

I must disagree. No Timmies franchise is anywhere close to being small scale. The franchise places invest a bunch of their corporate money into buying properties. They then lease the property with a shiny new building back to their lessees. At the end of the day, who owns all this prime property? That's right, the company.

Just take a look at all the locations that any McDonalds, Burger King, KFC are situated on. They are all on prime properties!

Even if a cup "o" joe only costs $2, they sell a butt load of them a day.

As an earlier poster said, the average NET earnings of all Timmies in Canada is in the neighbourhood of $350,000/year!!!

Every time I walked by the Main Street Timmies it had a lineup.

[fluffy]

Sure, they are a profitable venture but the numbers have to be there. The cost of the land factors into return on investment, and a piece of land going for half a million dollars is going to be show better at the bottom of the income statement than one that costs two or three million. I'm not sure what the Gables property is selling for, or the Slack's parcel, I'm just guessing that with their heart-of-downtown locations they'd be going for a pretty penny, enough that either the debt servicing or expected ROI would gobble up a $350K profit margin pretty quick.

[ToddT]

Both properties are big enough to open up a strip mall with a Tim's on one end and the other businesses would pay down the property in no time. Not that they would have to. Timmie's is huge and does whatever it wants. Lol don't forget there are 3 other ones in Penticton.

[twobits]

Sure, they are a profitable venture but the numbers have to be there. The cost of the land factors into return on investment, and a piece of land going for half a million dollars is going to be show better at the bottom of the income statement than one that costs two or three million. I'm not sure what the Gables property is selling for, or the Slack's parcel, I'm just guessing that with their heart-of-downtown locations they'd be going for a pretty penny, enough that either the debt servicing or expected ROI would gobble up a $350K profit margin pretty quick.

The 368k I quoted is not margin, it is net income so debt servicing is already removed as are all operating costs incl franchaise fee's. They are simply cash cows and why it costs, depending on location, 350k to a mill to even get a franchaise now. Then you start buying equipment etc. Someone previously was mistaken that the Timmies physical locations are corporate owned. That is not the case.

[irish61]

I'm not a coffee person and only went into Tim's Hortons for a sandwich every once in awhile but does it ever seem a lot quieter traffic wise with them closed! I'm not missing the pan handlers and walking through the smokers that hung out in front of the store but I'm sure having them closed is a loss for other merchants as they certainly seemed to draw the people and foot traffic down there.